This page documents a post hypnotically scripted conversational "denial session". To understand the raw psychology underlying this made possible by TREMENDOUS potential for mind control by the initial creation of MEMORY CONTROL. It is assumed that if you are at this place in the assimilation of the "Missing Knowledge" you have seen EMOTIONS and MEMORY, 1961 by David Rapaport, p.H.D. and he noted that "Post hypnotically scripted individuals will normally "vehemently deny" being hypnotized ever.

Two basic methods are common to ancient secret societies. The society I am interacting with here has been given general, conditional post hypnotic instructions to "not be able to KNOW what is being done to them." or approximately generally, "If anyone tries to tell you what has been done to you, you will know they are bad and try to make them look crazy. You won't like them and we send others to you who will help you to make them go away."

The unconscious mind does not need a long list of instructions. In a somnambulistic state it is likely that human beings are many times more telepathic than they are in a conscious state, so a set of conditional instructions will reley on the subjects innovation to actually excert a leading or controlling angle on the dynamic exchange of words and the many signals that are inferable A series of slightly more complex instructions than the simple preceding paragraphs might mention aspects that the hypnotist know are a part of my program to expose the secret that keeps itself. That series perhaps contained references to the actual tactics used in these attempts to confuse my fundamental messsage.

 

The Denver Post Online -

Your Voice

[ / ] News

[ / ] Columbine High School Shootings

[ / ] THIS IS WHY

SCHOOL VIOLENCE HAS ESCALATED!

 

[ / ] THIS IS WHY SCHOOL VIOLENCE HAS ESCALATED!

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:21pm May 9, 1999 MDT

 

THIS IS WHY school violence has escalated into what it is

visit the website at the end of this message to begin to

understand missing knowledge that is being use to hurt us!

 

The County of Santa Barbara California is missing over

1000 insanity actions that were made by the courts in 1876

to document a mass insanity in Santa Barbara. It was

created in by Native American Medicine people with an

ancient, deeply compelling form of hypnosis induced on

children under 7 years that can control them to extremes

throughout their lives for the purpose of demonstrating

the potentials for abuse so Americans could be informed

and protect themselves in the future. Now.

 

Santa Barbara and its courts has failed to recognize,

follow and uphold State laws and more concerning this

documentation of this ancient form of hypnosis. Since

January of 1997 I have been trying to inform this county

and or anyone that a mass insanity would occur if the

truth is not found by my civil actions in court. I

informed them people and children would die. No action.

 

THEN Paduca Kentucky Jonesboro Arkansas Pearl Miss.

Sprinfield Oregon Littleton Colorado.

 

No law inforcement agency will deal with this. No action

from Santa Barbara County only abuses of power to conceal

their neglect. NOW only people with an open mind who care

about children can do anything to protect children.

 

TIME TO ASSEMBLE.

 

Visit this website to see tangible evidence supporting

these claims. See the links from "Todays Legal Trail"

E-mail me if you have an open mind and want to help stop

the insanity!

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/

 

Sincerely Christopher A. Brown argus1@earthlink.net

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:08am May 15, 1999 MDT (#1 of 210)

 

It is clear that the fear levels concerning the truth of

what is happening in our subconscious minds is huge. However

if we;

 

THINK ABOUT LOVE THEN LIVE

 

it will help to open minds that would like to stop the

insanity!

 

Cease to abet negligence by government that is causing

lawlessness and loss of life! Examine the possiblities.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/

 

The truth is the strangest thing of all and we need to know

it to evolve.

 

Christopher A. Brown argus1@earthlink.net

-------------------------

Luba Vilinsky - 08:06pm May 15, 1999 MDT (#2 of 210)

 

Chris - I agree our government has a hand in it. But your

communication strongly suggests an attempt to start a witch

hunt. I can see you are distraught, but it just makes you

look like a crazy guy when you rant and rave like this.

Come back down to earth, please? If you want to DO

something about it, give us a way we can protect our kids,

willya?

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:44pm Jun 17, 1999 MDT (#3 of 210)

 

Luba, The way to protect kids is to see that government

allows us to understand the potentials for subconscious

programming. Any perception you have of what I am saying,

its validity, comes from or is limited by our societies

understanding of subconscious programming. Our societies

leaders, government, is hiding a HUGE amount of court case

files that document the factual aspects of what I say. I

have 40 years of experiences I have to live with that were

created with hypnosis without my conscious knowledge. You

have no idea how much it hurts me to rave and be ignored

when I am handing over everything I can find in the way of

tangible information supporting my claims. The obviously

different kids need to hypnotically screened or the ones

who don't fit in etc. etc. We are not experienced and a

large amount of resource would be needed so government is

needed. Citizens must assemble and DEMAND an understanding.

 

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 12:51am Jun 18, 1999 MDT (#4 of 210)

 

Christopher, I went to your site and read your stuff

because of your persistence. I have thought for at least 5

minutes as to how I should respond to you.

 

I have concluded the following: I ain't touchin that one

with a 20 foot pole.

-------------------------

gramps - 08:28am Jun 18, 1999 MDT (#5 of 210)

 

Chris, get profressional help.

 

Some questions for you to answer.

 

If what you say is true, then you are aware of the largest

consiracy in the history of mankind. There would have to be

literally thousands and thousands of people who were part

of this conspiracy, but have decided to be silent, and not

expose the "truth". This is not possible in our society.

 

Such a thing in our society is impossible. Every secret

that the government tries to hide, every secret weapon,

every program, gets exposed sooner or later. 40 years is

too long.

 

You are suffering from demons that can be removed form you,

but you must seek professional help to find peace in your

life.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 12:24am Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#6 of 210)

 

Gramps, I'll answer your questions. These forms of hypnosis

have become "THE SECRET THAT KEEPS ITSELF. Nobody decided

to keep silent, they cannot know. Why can't they know? Some

were hypnotized and given instructions like this. "You will

never be able to know what we are doing to you." The rest

are more comfortable not thinking about it. This is how it

has happened. The mind is a vast thing. Our past is vast.

Now I'll ask some questions. What were pyramids for gramps?

Gramps why does stonhenge have its major alignment to the

winter solstice sunrise? Whats a Ley line gramps? Doesn't

ley mean law in spanish? What was a truthsayer gramps? What

was the evil eye? Is it true gramps that voodoo has been

used to stop and start a human heart? How did houdini stay

in that box underwater so long? What was a spirit warrior

gramps? Mind control gramps. Yea I know you are the product

of a society that has been sanitized of truths that are

deeply a part of our ancient past. Knowledge of the

subconscious is old gramps. No amount of fear is going to

make your subconscious go away. Rejection won't work

either. Denial is what is causing our problems and the

Native Medicine people and others from the ancient

spiritual world are rubbing our faces in it to make us

control our government. Court case files are missing man!

Children are dying and we don't know why it is happening!

Either you are too afraid of pagans, or too afraid of

government but what your doing with your right to free

speech ain't helping gramps. People are good gramps,

sometimes they learn things that are bad that end up

controling them. Love them gramps, show them the good

things in life that you understand. They'll want to move

towards the way you think. Talk to them about protecting

children gramps and try to explain how the pure love of a

child and the promise of their future is natural to protect

with truth. No matter how difficult the truth. Truth is to

protect love and life and it should be so, don't ya think

gramps? Meanwhile you better look at the subpoena denials;

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subdeny.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subpena1.html Compare

what the subpoena denials say to this signed declaration;

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/skudec.html For a sample

of a fully irrational judge see the motion to disqualify

the judge from civil case

220298;http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/disqual.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/distrans.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/distrust.html If you care

about children come to Santa Barbara for a dose of lawless

governmnent and you will see that no professional cares, so

they can't help anyone.

-------------------------

ekle - 01:24am Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#7 of 210)

 

Gramps,

 

nothing is impossible. You go ahead and believe we KNOW

EVERYTHING about what goes on today.

 

Unfortuately we are (most of us) only sheep, that as long

as long as we are somewhat safe and satisfied in our life,

we dont cause trouble.

 

Thats the American way.

-------------------------

(203 following messages)

-------------------------

 

-------------------------

ekle - 01:24am Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#7 of 210)

 

Gramps,

 

nothing is impossible. You go ahead and believe we KNOW

EVERYTHING about what goes on today.

 

Unfortuately we are (most of us) only sheep, that as long

as long as we are somewhat safe and satisfied in our life,

we dont cause trouble.

 

Thats the American way.

-------------------------

gramps - 09:40am Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#8 of 210)

 

I would be first to say that there is much that we don't

understand.

 

Science isn't able to answer all of the questions, yet,

science is at the forefront of what we do know about the

would around us.

 

There is much of what Chris has outlined (the pyramids,

etc) that can't be understood over time. I am not one to

start thinking that yesterday's world is ALL THAT much

different that today's, just that the people who lived long

ago had a problem in writing down information is such a way

that we could pick it up today and know what they were

thing. Imagine someone two thousand years from now reading

all these posts, and trying to determine what sort of

society we live in, from this!

 

I am a person who trusts themselves a great deal. I don't

look to other people fro all the answers; yet I listen to

everybody... for a while, anyway.

 

Todays world has a large number of confused people who

worship all sorts of different things. Everything from God,

to satan, to extra-terrestrials. Formal religion takes all

sorts of forms, most of these have several things in

common.

 

A person's spirit lives "forever".

 

There is a sort of intelligence that is greater, and wiser,

and more powerful that "us".

 

Belief will allow a person to live a life that has better

quality.

 

Personally, I'm not a "joiner", so I reject all of this.

-------------------------

Ivan Wine - 02:35pm Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#9 of 210)

 

RE:What was a truthsayer gramps?

 

do you mean soothsayer?

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:46pm Jul 9, 1999 MDT (#10 of 210)

 

Violence has been escalating in America for quite some time

now. You can really tell the difference between different

societies and why one would perpetuate hate and violence

more than another. I can't really explain it, although I

wish I could.

 

Did you know that France is partly communist?

 

I will try to explain it with a story:

I got on the plane to go to France. I got off the plane. I

got off the 9.5 hour flight really wanting a cigarette.

While I was waiting in the passport control line I sparked

one up. I smoked my cigarette until I got really close to

the passport checking booth. I put my cigarette out on the

trashcan that said "no smoking." I am experienced enough in

travel to know I can get away with this in France.

I gave them the card I filled out. They didn't even look at

it. They scanned my passport and gave it back, throwing the

form into a box that will never get looked at again. I

proceeded to the baggage claim area. I am experienced

enough in travel to know to only travel with one carry-on

bag. I skipped that step. I walked through the area called

"French Customs" where my existence was feverishly ignored.

One time I landed in France and customs was on strike so I

got to skip that step. This time they weren't, but they

looked really bored. I have seen drug sniffing dogs in

their customs. I guess that's how they catch people.

 

I proceeded to bum around England and France.

 

I got back to the USA somehow. I got to customs. They had a

loud speaker to let us know that our first amendment right

was temporarily void, as usual. I got briefly questioned

about where I had been, etc. Then my baggage got X-rayed.

They were searching through some other people's stuff in a

different line. I was finally "let go." And this is to get

back into my "own country??" Yes, I'm a citizen here. THAT

should be plenty. Again, the drug war has failed in a

infinite number of ways.

 

I smuggled twice the allowed number of cigarettes in. I

also got in two, instead of one, bottles of really good

French wine. After all that !@#%!^% they didn't even catch

me. nah nah nah nah boo boo

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:49pm Jul 9, 1999 MDT (#11 of 210)

 

There is a book called out called "United States of Hate"

 

Maybe you lot should read it.

-------------------------

JAM - 01:41am Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#12 of 210)

 

Are Christopher's beliefs any different from blaiming the

Video Games, Music Lyrics, Marilyn Manson, Goth Fad,

Violence in Movies or any other strange reasons that people

are grasping at to try to understand how sick and violent

young people have become in America?

 

Although there are few psychologist who will agree with his

notions, there are some who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald

had been brainwashed into being at least a pawn in the

Kennedy assassination. The same was said of Sirhan Sirhan,

his mind had been altered to make him commit the violent

crime.

 

So who knows, maybe the Native Americans have some strange

powers that are unknown to the rest of us. But, Chris,

don't you think that they would use their powers to remove

the wide-spread poverty from their lives before they would

program young white males to kill people? Just a thought.

-------------------------

(198 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

MostlyUnknown - 06:16am Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#13 of 210)

 

JAM, don't egg him on. I think he has enough problems. :P

-------------------------

Luba Vilinsky - 06:23pm Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#14 of 210)

 

Okay, Chris. I've done a very little bit of study over my

life on the subject of hypnotism, I'm no expert on it by a

long shot. It's not a subject I particularly admire,

personally I consider it loathsome because of the

intentions of the people who use it and the resulting

basketcases. You are couching social manipulation in terms

of magic, voodoo and pyramids - sounds largely fanatic and

sensationalistic. Yes some people have an "unbelievability"

problem and immediately cast out anything which sounds

absurd without really inspecting it. Sorry, that's just

human to disregard what you don't understand. But most

people are far from that, in fact I feel new ideas

challenge my ability to be logical about things.

 

So, if your theory were true, most people would be too

scared shitless of the implications of hypnotism to do

anything. You have stated a problem and largely why it's

unacceptable is because it is not understandable and the

website you provided makes it look even more ludicrous and

"scare-tactic ish" if you may. I like to maintain that we

are aware enough and capable enough as human beings to be

largely un-affected by such things as voodoo and pyramids.

 

From what I've seen, drugs are the only things tha

can/would make someone really susceptible to "irreversible"

hypnotic suggestions that don't "wear off" after a while.

The answer is simple: don't take drugs and play video games

or watch the news at the same time!

 

Manipulation of our culture? Perhaps I can see that by

means of media and education - but I still have my own view

on things regardless of what others are doing and saying

and most people think for themselves and can tell when

things don't make sense to them and they revolt against

government imposed idiocies mentally, even if not

physically.

 

A manipulative government that puts society into apathy by

something like hypnotism, in times of war, will find it's

"patriots" would be so incompetent or mentally screwed up

that they would do one of two things: 1. Fight a war in

lemming fasion, since logic is completely shut off in a

hypnotic trance, and eventually wipe out more than half the

population by dying in war. 2. In revolt to social

manipulation, people would eventually rather go to jail or

than fight for such a government. I think the world is

learning its lesson from Kosovo about supporting a

psychotic government.

 

So who would there be left to be governed if we are all

acting like lemmings/robots? What's the point? While

governments can act crazy, I don't think our governments

are THAT stupid. Hitler already tried social hypnotism. Our

government has so many different faiths, it's hard to see

them allowing anything similar to that.

 

What you are saying about government/american indians

sounds like this to me: "Yeah, let's hypnotize everyone to

start killing each other...uh-oh, the promoted mental state

is spreading out of control! Woops, only crazy people left.

Duhyuk!"

 

I did a net search on hypnotism, there's plenty of info

available about it. Your efforts to educate just look like

efforts to scare and that's why you are shunned.

-------------------------

Daniel Dvorkin - 04:18pm Jul 12, 1999 MDT (#15 of 210)

 

"Violence has been escalating in America for quite some

time now."

 

MostlyUnknown, actually, violent crime (along with other

types of crime) has been on a steady decline in the US for

about a decade.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:06pm Jul 12, 1999 MDT (#16 of 210)

 

People keep saying that. Yet I can so easily look around

and see exactly the opposite happening. I tend to believe

what I see more than what a political group publishes.

 

Where did they get their information? Could there be other

determining factors? Like less people reporting crimes?

 

I don't know, but I sure can just look around...

-------------------------

ekle - 04:05am Jul 13, 1999 MDT (#17 of 210)

 

Yep, we only know what we see on the news and read in the

papers.

 

Very few actually look at the trends themselves, even fewer

have the compentence to understand what they see.

 

The media reports what the consumers want to hear, if they

dont, they lose points and money. Does everyone think they

are just there to "help us know whats going on"?

 

And, you know what, if the govt says crime is going down

all over, do you believe it? What if they said the opposite

instead, would it make a difference? See what I mean. What

is in the media, is what everyone tends to believe. Our

opinions (for most of us) are formed for us by the media,

but subconsciously. It is pretty simple to REPORT less

crime, and then there WILL be less crime. And if we say

there is less crime, then it "automatically" is?

 

Which is also a point concerning this topic. The only

things that we know, we got through the media in some form.

The vast majority of us dont know anyone that was directly

involved, so what do we go by?

 

When will America wake up and learn to think

-------------------------

Luba Vilinsky - 03:26pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#18 of 210)

 

While it's folly to ignore the press entirely, I definitely

take what they say skeptically, and I look for myself on

subjects I feel are important.

 

Your best measure is still observation of your own

enviornment, I think. Sensationalism tends to put people

into an anxious state, unnecessarily and "grips their

attention".

 

Most of the adults I meet are generally friendly. The teens

(11 through 18) around here though, my god. You'd think by

the way they dressed they were all part of the mafia or

into drug dealing. My sisters constantly points out gang

culture indicators in the other kids they see. Like at

7-11, kids hanging around outside, my sister will indicate

the guns underneath their baggy pants and wrapped into

their jackets and tell me "stay away from them, they're

'packin'", as we walk into 7-11 we're greeted by perverted,

devilish smiles. I'd say 99% of the public school teens I

meet have morally corrupt - do whatever I want, "tougher

than you", "don't mess with me or you'll die" attitudes

toward others.

-------------------------

(192 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

-------------------------

Daniel Dvorkin - 04:27pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#19 of 210)

 

I don't see any reason to assume FBI crime statistics are

lies. Not a perfect measure, to be sure -- obviously

reporting rates vary -- but the best measure we've got, and

a hell of a lot better than looking out on the street and

saying, "Hmmm, I see a bunch of kids who look like

gangsters to me, crime must be on the rise again."

Teenagers have _always_ tried to look tougher than they

really are. Many of today's middle-aged adults worshipped

James Dean, and their parents were thoroughly convinced the

world was going to hell as a result ...

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 04:46pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#20 of

210)

 

MostlyUnknown - 08:49pm Jul 9, 1999 MDT (#11 of 17) There

is a book called out called "United States of Hate"

 

Response: A book about what love means to us and our

families will bring us function. Native Americans

understand love. They have been hurt and cannot just come

forward to show us. Our culture is mentally disabled from

dealing with this knowledge and has been so since the

crusades.

 

JAM - 01:41am Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#12 of 17) Are

Christopher's beliefs any different from blaiming the Video

Games.......

 

Response; My beliefs are different from blaming the Video

Games, Music Lyrics, Marilyn Manson, Goth Fad, Violence in

Movies or any other strange reasons that people are

grasping at.

 

JAM, I do understand how sick and violent young people have

become in America? Our government is not allowing the

information the psychologists need to understand how a

childs mind can be taught to transition to states that are

totally undocumented. We desparately need to develop

hypnotic treatments for unconscius, irational, manipulation

as well as mental illnesses that happen naturallly or

inadvertantly. Native American Medicine people have a vast

amount of knowledge concerning what a CHILDS MIND can be

taught to do with awareness when controlled by the

subconscious. We NEED to make our government follow

LAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

JAM mentions an important aspect of the unconscious

corruption undermining our nation when he mentions Lee

Harvey Oswald. I add that even though uncontrolled

compulsions drive people, they can still be good and that

love is still the most important thing to them although

they may not show it or even consciously know it.

 

Yes JAM, Native Americans have some strange powers that are

unknown to the rest of us.

 

JAM CONTINUES; But, Chris, don't you think that they would

use their powers to remove the wide-spread poverty from

their lives before they would program young white males to

kill people? Just a thought.

 

JAM. The Natives are unconscious with their actions. Their

actions are aspects of a program created 120 years ago,

here in Santa Barbara, after hundreds of them were hunted

down and massacred. Very serious atrocities were commited

because the Native Medicine people and NAtive people insist

that there be a conscious enitity that MAKE them

responsible for what they do with their ancient knowledge

of the mind. The courts are that entity and they will not

function, they will not make government follow laws. Not in

1876 and not in 1998. When our culture/society demonstrates

it has an understanding of what is possible the Medicine

people will loose their deep subconscious fears that keep

them acting without rational limits. They want to remove

the widespread poverty very badly but before they can do

that they must see us work to control our government.

 

MostlyUnknown - 06:16am Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#13 of 17) JAM,

don't egg him on. I think he has enough problems.

 

Response; MostlyUnknown, its true. I have many problems and

I know exactly what they are. Finding a lawyer in the

United States of America that is willing to use law to

protect life is a large problem. Jerry Spence has gotten a

letter from me he didn't answer. Pre paid Legal services

won't refer lawyers to me any longer. A local attorney

after hearing about the missing 1000 or so court case files

here in SB said after I asked him if there were any lawyers

who would use law to protect life, "Well you see them on TV

every day." We have been spoon fed our confidence in our

government while we have become isolated from the core

beliefs that make us human. Love as the purpose of life.

And we have become isolated from each other. The Native

know that the greatest meaning of free speech is when it is

used to share knowledge that inspires or creates;

understanding, tolerance, acceptance, respect, friendship

and love.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 04:54pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#21 of

210)

 

Ivan Wine - 02:35pm Jul 6, 1999 MDT (#9 of 20)

 

RE:What was a truthsayer gramps? do you mean soothsayer?

 

I HAVE GOT TO ANSWER THIS ONE. The truthsayer was a

hypnotist. All childeren in the old world were hypnotised

before age 6 and given a deep trance basis. Once a person

has a basis they can be forced into a trance. The community

of truthsayers shared, through trance sessions, the various

techniques that were in use. By knowing more techniques it

was possible to have many to try in the induction attempts

that the king or emperor would ask you to do upon strangers

accused of crimes. Tha accused was forced into a trance by

the truthsayer and the king asked questions. No rational

abilities equals no lies.

-------------------------

Ivan Wine - 05:37pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#22 of 210)

 

interesting. I have never heard of a "truethsayer" and will

have to try and do a little research in to the subject....

-------------------------

Daniel Dvorkin - 05:38pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#23 of 210)

 

Ivan, you're not taking this babble seriously, are you?

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:28pm Jul 16, 1999 MDT (#24 of

210)

 

Daniel Dvorkin - 05:38pm Jul 14, 1999 MDT (#23 of 24)

 

Ivan, you're not taking this babble seriously, are you?

 

I will respond because I don't come from Babylon. We speak

one language that begins with an understanding that is

ancient. Love IS the purpose of life and the deep

subconscious knows it is so. Love enables the nessesary

sacrafices to allow life to survive.

 

Ivan won't find anything on the truthsayer (name changed to

soothsayer to confuse history) because that knowledge was

the first to be burned by those who worked to control the

past with the written word.

 

Problem solving technique 1A says that if, "we don't know

why kids are shooting each other in the schools", we might

be "missing the knowledge" needed to know why.

 

OPEN MINDS SAVE LIVES.

-------------------------

(186 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:29pm Jul 16, 1999 MDT (#25 of

210)

 

Luba Vilinsky - 06:23pm Jul 11, 1999 MDT (#14 of 17) Okay,

Chris. I've done a very little bit of study over my life on

the subject of hypnotism, I'm no expert on it by a long

shot. It's not a subject I particularly admire, personally

I consider it loathsome because of the intentions of the

people who use it and the resulting basketcases. You are

couching social manipulation in terms of magic, voodoo and

pyramids - sounds largely fanatic and

 

Response; OKAY Luba. What I read is that you understand

that problems are created and they are loathsome and for

that reason what I claim sounds fanatical. If there were a

fire outside your house you would act fanatical. These

violent events constitute that fire for me because I have

40 years of experience in being hypnotically manipulated. I

know what is possible, kids are dying, we don't know why,

I'm making noise. These are rational responsible things to

be doing in the situation I am in.

 

People are scared shitless of the implications of the

information I bring. It means they are going to have to

understand the deep subconscious and how it relates to the

intents of our constitution and the Declaration of

Independance. To save our world people are going to have to

agree and allow democracy to function. Remember they are

isolated and afraid of each other so this is a tall order.

 

LUBA SAYS; the website you provided makes it look even more

ludicrous and "scare-tactic ish" if you may. I like to

maintain that we are aware enough and capable enough as

human beings to be largely un-affected by such things as

voodoo and pyramids.

 

Response; There are reasons for a person not being able to

understand Luba. Unfortunately they may be harder to accept

than the things you think you are largely unaffected by.

 

LUBA SAYS; From what I've seen, drugs are the only things

tha can/would make someone really susceptible to

"irreversible" hypnotic suggestions that don't "wear off"

after a while. The answer is simple: don't take drugs and

play video games or watch the news at the same time!

 

Response; I agree but what about the illegal uses of

hypnosis Luba? There are laws against what has been done. I

expect government, law enforcement and the courts to

undertake an understanding with zeal. Or we should start

teaching children something different about what our

society is.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:31pm Jul 16, 1999 MDT (#26 of

210)

 

LUBA SAYS; Manipulation of our culture? Perhaps I can see

that by means of media and education - but I still have my

own view on things

 

Response; You are entitled to that Luba and FOR SURE our

medias are manipulating us and not just a little bit.

Misinformation and disinformation are the worst of it.

 

LUBA SAYS; and they revolt against government

 

Response; I'm not talking about revolt Luba. We need

government and as messed up as our government is I believe

that most of the people in it are good people. There are

compulsions of fear that drive our lives from our

subconscious minds and the people in government are not

immune.

 

LUBA SAYS; A manipulative government that puts society into

apathy by something like hypnotism, in times of war, will

find it's "patriots" would be so incompetent or mentally

screwed up that they would do one of two things: 1. Fight a

war in lemming fasion, since logic is completely shut off

in a hypnotic trance, and eventually wipe out more than

half the population by dying in war. 2. In revolt to social

manipulation, people would eventually rather go to jail or

than fight for such a government. I think the world is

learning its lesson from Kosovo about supporting a

psychotic government.

 

Response; I don't think I could say it better Luba and it

is already happening.

 

LUBA SAYS; I don't think our governments are THAT stupid.

 

Response; Not stupid Luba, disabled by compulsions of the

subconscious. They fear us Luba. Love them. Talk to them.

Show them how you expect your laws to work and they are

your laws. They are our laws Luba. People in government are

human, they have children too. They have futures. Help them

to lose their fear of us.

 

LUBA SAYS; What you are saying about government/american

indians sounds like this to me: "Yeah, let's hypnotize

everyone to start killing each other...uh-oh, the promoted

mental state is spreading out of control! Woops, only crazy

people left. Duhyuk!"

 

Response; If we don't talk about the possibilities and

begin to agree about what our past includes it could get

out of control. We are talking about it and I appreciate

your input but it is a bit erratic.

 

LUBA SAYS; I did a net search on hypnotism, there's plenty

of info available about it. Your efforts to educate just

look like efforts to scare and that's why you are shunned.

 

Response; Luba the internet has less about the human

subconscious now than it did five years ago. We know less

about hypnosis now than we did in 1965. the Medicine people

need respect for carring this ancient knowledge in thier

minds and that doesn't mean you or anyone should fear them.

Understand them if you can because they are trying to help

us to stop our destruction of the natural world. There are

reasons for being shunned Luba and again, unfortunately

they may be harder to accept than the things you think you

are largely unaffected by.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:32pm Jul 16, 1999 MDT (#27 of

210)

 

Daniel Dvorkin - 04:18pm Jul 12, 1999 MDT (#15 of 17) AND

MostlyUnknown - 08:06pm Jul 12, 1999 MDT (#16 of 17)

"Violence has been escalating in America for quite some

time now."

 

MostlyUnknown, actually, violent crime (along with other

types of crime) has been on a steady decline in the US for

about a decade.

 

People keep saying that. Yet I can so easily look around

and see exactly the opposite happening. I tend to believe

what I see more than what a political group publishes.

 

Where did they get their information? Could there be other

determining factors? Like less people reporting crimes?

 

Response; Daniel D. and MostlyUnknown have made a very

valid exchange underlining Lubas points on manipulation of

the US population by media.

 

ekle - 04:05am Jul 13, 1999 MDT (#17 of 17) Yep, we only

know what we see on the news and read in the papers.

 

Response; ekle knows that the information we are getting is

designed to make us think certain things.

 

EKLE SAYS; The media reports what the consumers want to

hear, if they dont, they lose points and money.

 

Response; I think ekle, that there is a subconscious

compulsion to control the information that the public gets.

That fear again.

 

EKLE SAYS; When will America wake up and learn to think.

 

Response; Yipee! Let us do it soon.

-------------------------

(183 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 02:27pm Jul 17, 1999 MDT (#28 of 210)

 

But Christopher, I know exactly why the school shootings

happened.

 

Let's take this scenario: A person gets charged with a drug

violation that lands them in prison for 5 years. They serve

maybe two.

 

That person has been locked up in a cage and given a life

of slavery for two years.

 

Let's talk about when that person is released. Do you think

they say "Oh gosh, because I was put into slavery for two

years, I feel so badly about growing a little pot" I really

doubt it.

 

Let's say, instead, this person builds up two years worth

of rage and gives a physical display of power to the

society that he/she felt caused it by unloading clip after

clip from an AK-47 into a full movie theatre.

 

We see events like that quite a bit, except people refuse

to accept why events like that are taking place. We humans

are very good at rationalizing out why we can do bad things

to other people and still feel good about ourselves.

 

And we pay for it.

 

But Indian medicine people and government mind control?

Sounds like a bad trip.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 02:30pm Jul 17, 1999 MDT (#29 of 210)

 

Now let us say that E & D had built up quite a few years

worth of rage. Now let's add in their age. They were at the

age when the military loves to recruit people. They still

have tons of fights in themselves, which leads to confusion

and sometimes rage. Let's compound this with other kids

treating them like dirt and even physically assaulting

them. They see the administration doing nothing to stop it.

So they lash out by randomly killing people they believe to

be the system, and then taking there own lives because they

know they will be caught.

 

That is more along the lines of reality than "indian

medicine people" or "blame the parents." Sorry if you guys

don't want to see the truth.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 02:48pm Jul 18, 1999 MDT (#30 of

210)

 

Response to posting of MostlyUnknown - 02:30pm Jul 17, 1999

MDT (#29 of 29)

 

Rage, socially treated like dirt, confusion. These are all

things that can be created with post hypnotic suggestion in

a group. Our dysfunctions are easy to analyse and you are

doing a competant job. When you bring in the

administrations failures to act its is an echo of the

neglect/denial I've encountered here in Santa Barbara that

is, by the way, just as real as any thing that has happened

in the schools.

 

Your analysis is logical to the end but our reality has

been distorted by so much of this that it now looks normal

that parents are neglectful. Medicine people exploit the

real weakness in our ignorance as parents and citizens to

make it more obvious, in its extreme potential, for us to

see. The question for the people is. "Will you let the

sacrafices be wasted or will see, then lose your fear and

act to make government follow laws?"

 

If denial is still a mode of response see my posting here;

http://talk.denverpost.com/webx/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee733

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 02:50pm Jul 18, 1999 MDT (#31 of

210)

 

Response to the posting of MostlyUnknown - 02:27pm Jul 17,

MostlyUnknown does point at significant events. Events

easily set up with hypnosis specifically to reinforce

instruction given to the main subject. Severe cognitive

distortions can be created in this way within that subject

and can allow the compulsions of anger and violence to

become dominant in a persons subconscious then conscious

state. So your points of drugs, disproportionate

punishments, imprisonment and lack of abilty to

rehabilitate efectively are 100% valid. They are real and

they are happening to people every day.

 

We are missing much knowledge. Your scenario in the theatre

happens but it is forgotten to make repression easier, more

complete. Its subconscious, we know nothing about how to

undo it, we are in trouble.

 

MOSTLYUNKNOWN SAYS; But Indian medicine people and

government mind control? Sounds like a bad trip.

 

Heavy trip. I'm making it a good trip if I can. Got to

respect them all and have confidence in the fact that they

are human. They were born. If they didn't have a mother and

a father who showed them what love is, they still know how

beautiful it is. All of us need an opportunity to react

appropriately to this information based in the fact that

our mental abilities are 86% subconscious. Native Medicine

people hope that an understanding of the greater meaning of

free speech (something that could be anywhere, anytime),

known by inference, as the empowerment of; understanding,

tolerance, acceptance, respect, friendship and love,

PROTECTING LIFE.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 09:31pm Jul 18, 1999 MDT (#32 of 210)

 

So your points of drugs, disproportionate punishments,

imprisonment and lack of abilty to rehabilitate efectively

are 100% valid. They are real and they are happening to

people every day.

 

It has to do with selfishness, thoughtlessness, and denial,

but not medicine people.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 09:38pm Jul 18, 1999 MDT (#33 of 210)

 

I hear that indian reservations are separate from the USA.

I also hear that registered indians can carry small amounts

of marijuana, peyote, and "shrooms." We could easily

associate the drugs with the poverty they are in, but it

would be more accurate to associate it with the still

shrinking land that is not suitable for farming. Or better

yet, the fact that the main animal they hunt is now extinct

due to the fact that we killed them all. We slaughtered

most of the indians while we were all busy slaughtering the

bison. (I think that is the animal that used to run on the

open planes)

 

But government mind control? No. It is individual greed and

selfishness. We are conditioned by the society we live in,

starting at an early age, but society conditions and shapes

itself based on it's own views and culture. That is

completely different than 'group think' or other forms of

mass hypnosis.

 

You are on a trip in the wrong direction from truth. The

idea that the government has a system to hypnotize us is

silly.

-------------------------

(177 following messages)

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Dark Shadow - 11:09am Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#34 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher,

 

I've got questions here, as long as my mind is still clear

(you claim, women are totally hypnotized):

 

How do these Native Indians go about their compulsion to

hypnotize people? By air? By wind? By TV? By what? Consider

the population count. Or do they sit around and chant?

 

Do these Native Indians have computers, access to the

Internet? If so, why don't we hear from them, telling us

about their compulsion? I guess, they are too busy with

their compulsion???

 

You made an earlier statement, as to drugs you may have

taken? If you "may have taken drugs", they went straight to

your reasoning section in the brain, and left voices

behind.

 

In any case you've stated beautifully, why men cannot

understand women. Well, guys, now you know: We can't help

it, we're totally hypnotized, hence we did'nt get to vote

until this century. Isn't that right, Christopher?

 

(*too late, I'm falling on the floor in a fit..*).

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:29am Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#35 of 210)

 

You mean the reason men think women are dumb and women

think men are dumb is because we were hypnotized by the

government to think that? Hehehehe

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 01:42pm Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#36 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

"You mean the reason men think women are dumb and women

think men are dumb is because we were hypnotized by the

government to think that? Hehehehe"

 

No, no, no. It's the American Native Indians, that

hypnotized us. We are supposed to force the Government to

follow its laws. Women can be totally hypnotized by these

Indians, more so than men.That's what Christopher says.

 

Help, I'm so confused, I'm so hypnotized. And yes, that's

why men and women don't get along. It's different levels of

hypnotism, don't you see.

 

(*she awakes from her trance, time to act...she falls on

floor*)

-------------------------

Lucy Schlachter - 09:29pm Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#37 of 210)

 

Ekle & Gramps,

 

Would you go so far as to say that there are things that

are not humanly understandable?

-------------------------

Kathy Keener - 11:24pm Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#38 of 210)

 

maid miriam,

 

Did hypnosis make you so funny too? :)

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 01:12am Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#39 of

210)

 

MostlyUnknown - 09:31pm Jul 18, 1999 It has to do with

selfishness, thoughtlessness, and denial, but not medicine

people

 

Response; MOSTLYUNKNOWN speaks as though he has lived my

life. I know much of what is possible with a human mind

that has been placed in a cataleptic trance at age 4 and

our culture is deeply ignorant of this knowledge. The

statements being made here in response to the information I

bring demonstrate this adequately. And he is right about

selfishness, thoughtlessness but the extent that they are

present in our culture is far too much to be explained by

simple "progress". We are missing something.

 

MOSTLYUNKNOWN talks about Indian Reservations Response;

Native Medicine people have forsaken their conscious

appreciation of the their ability to interact with others

in the subconscious realm. They cannot control properly

what they are doing with their uses of the trance in this

unconscious state. No one can. This is their point. Many of

the problems with drugs and alchohol on the reservations

are caused by the unconscious actions of the MEdicine

people tryin to help their people. DON'T instructions. They

can't stop giving them. You cannot tell a person in a

trance don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs. All the

person hears is "do". Imagine how the Medcine people feel

after doing this and then seeing the people they instructed

as children 10 years earlier with serious problems. This is

another reason they have created this demonstration. And

that is what it is. They are good people and deserve

respect for what they have preserved and try to return to

us. Our cultures are in shambles. Families can hardly form.

We are a mess.

 

The shamanic uses of drugs that are traditional in their

culture are not abuses and need to be understood.

 

MOSTLYUNKNOWN SAYS; But government mind control? No. It is

individual greed and selfishness. We are conditioned by the

society we live in, starting at an early age, but society

conditions and shapes itself..........

 

Respnse; Try to get the government mind control thing out

of your head. It is not comprehensive. Our government is

controlled secretly by the oral histories of the crusaders

that utilize an ancient, unknown form of hypnosis that

begins on children. This is why our government doesn't make

sense and ridiculous things like Bill & Monica control the

media for years on end.

 

MAID MARION SAYS; (you claim, women are totally hypnotized)

 

Response; Actually I said that when women are influenced at

an early age by this form of hypnosis they can be totally

controlled for life. And I've said this numerous times. The

Natives are not conscious of what they are doing. They are

not conscious because our ancestors (crusaders in

government) hunted them down and killed them for practicing

their religion of hypnosis. To escape divulging each others

identity under torture they relinquished their

consciousness by uses of their hypnosis.

 

How they do it is one little girl at a time and they don't

get them all. In day cares, babysitters and other places

where they can gain access in a one on one situation. It

can be initially done in less than five minutes and because

our culture is ignorant it does not recognize the situation

in the rare instances when it is observed. So we allow it

to happen.

 

MAID MARION SAYS; Help, I'm so confused, I'm so hypnotized.

And yes, that's why men and women don't get along.

 

Response; Actually relationships fail because the genders

don't understand their purposes in the generational chain

of evolution. Native Medicine people teach unconditional

love as the purpose of life in a trance to all of the

children. Traditionally, relationships are/were often set

up between people who have matching psychologies. However

the people meet, the compulsions that can be evoked with

the proper instructions can bring deeply gratifying

relationships that last through life. Love and sexuality

can be enhanced to a degree with th

-------------------------

(171 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

 

ekle - 06:43am Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#40 of 210)

 

Lucy, I think I know what you are gettin at, am I right?

Either way, I will answer it, but not now. Got too much to

do. m

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 06:57am Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#41 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

"Kathy Keener - 11:24pm Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#38 of 40) maid

miriam,

 

Did hypnosis make you so funny too? :)"

 

Sure did. At least, I know what's wrong with me. I told my

husband last night, I ain't responsible for my actions. I

is hypnotized. I'm gonna use this excuse, until the day I

die.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:01am Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#42 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

"Maid Miriam - 11:09am Jul 19, 1999 MDT (#34 of 41)

Christopher,

 

I've got questions here, as long as my mind is still clear

(you claim, women are totally hypnotized):

 

How do these Native Indians go about their compulsion to

hypnotize people? By air? By wind? By TV? By what? Consider

the population count. Or do they sit around and chant?

 

Do these Native Indians have computers, access to the

Internet? If so, why don't we hear from them, telling us

about their compulsion? I guess, they are too busy with

their compulsion???"

 

You did not answer my questions. Why don't we hear from any

of these Native Indians? What reservations do they live on?

We should contact them and find out, rather than reading

this tripe you throw out there. Well, you gotta excuse me,

I'm hypnotized. Can't help my compulsion to find out how I

was hypnotized and when. How can I find out?

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:38am Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#43 of 210)

 

But Christopher, we could all take the view that the sole

reason for our existence is to mate and pass on our DNA.

But that is very depressing.

 

I would rather live in the hypnotic world where we think

relationships are based on love and caring about one

another.

 

I used to view love like Santa Claus, a big joke that's

nice to think about, but one day I discovered it actually

exists. It is generated by our own minds into reality.

 

Again, Indian medicine people (IMP's from now on) have

absolutely nothing to do with it.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 01:14pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#44 of 210)

 

I hear that indian reservations are separate from

the USA. I also hear that registered indians can

carry small amounts of marijuana, peyote, and

"shrooms." We could easily associate the drugs

with the poverty they are in, but it would be

more accurate to associate it with the still

shrinking land that is not suitable for farming.

Or better yet, the fact that the main animal they

hunt is now extinct due to the fact that we

killed them all. We slaughtered most of the

indians while we were all busy slaughtering the

bison. (I think that is the animal that used to

run on the open planes)

 

Gee, you are as knowledgeable about the Indians as

everything you else that you talk about.

 

1. Very few Indians in what is now the U.S. were farmers

(and many of the tribes that were, aren't around anymore).

The Cherokees in Georgia became very competent at farming

(right down to owning black slaves), but this was as they

became proper Americans, and left behind much of their

Indian past.

 

2. Reservations shrinking? No. In fact, some tribes are

beginning to win settlements for land taken from them

illegally in the past.

 

3. Bison? Sorry, but the hunting of bison was a short-lived

activity of the Plains Indians after they acquired horses

from the Spaniards. That culture has little to do with the

vast majority of the Indian tribes in the U.S.

-------------------------

gramps - 01:56pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#45 of 210)

 

Lucy,

 

I would say quite assurredly that there is MUCH that people

do not understand. We have to look no futher than to

compare the beliefs of a group of uneducated, or primative,

group of people versus a group that is knowledgable about

modern science, medicine, etc. To claim that "we know it

all" is absurd. But of the things of which we have no

knowledge, how much of that is KNOWABLE, ever?

 

Maybe I "wasted" 15 years of my life going to college, as I

do not have all the answers. But do I believe that anyone

else DOES have "all the answers"? Nope.

-------------------------

gramps - 01:59pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#46 of 210)

 

Sorry, Clayton, but the plains indians did quite well

hunting bison before the horse. Their technique was simple,

chase them off a cliff. And for the first hundred years or

so, the plains indians hunted the horse for food, before

they learned how to ride.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 02:03pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#47 of 210)

 

but this was as they became proper Americans, and left

behind much of their Indian past.

 

Proper American? You are the definition of a self-rightoues

idiot American. Did your little history class teach you

about how we wrapped the indians in disease ridden blankets

to save bullets?

 

The indians weren't farmers, huh? How did they teach us to

grow native crops like corn?

 

Go back to school if you want to make statements like that.

 

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(163 following messages)

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-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 02:06pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#48 of 210)

 

Sorry, Clayton, but the plains indians did quite well

hunting bison before the horse. Their technique was simple,

chase them off a cliff. And for the first hundred years or

so, the plains indians hunted the horse for food, before

they learned how to ride.

 

Yes, and they used every last bit of the bison. I was

unaware that they ate horse, but I can see why they found a

better tasting food! The French eat horse. It is tough,

very bloody, and generally bad tasting.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 02:17pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#49 of 210)

 

Clayton, what if the Germans justified the Jewish holocaust

in the same way you are justifying the Indian holocaust?

 

People who think like you are dangerous. The fact that you

have an arsenal of guns and the constitution memorized

verbatim is scary.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 03:44pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#50 of 210)

 

Sorry, Clayton, but the plains indians did quite

well hunting bison before the horse. Their

technique was simple, chase them off a cliff. And

for the first hundred years or so, the plains

indians hunted the horse for food, before they

learned how to ride.

 

Try again. I am well aware of the finds of bison chased off

cliffs. But those aren't particularly recent -- many

thousands of years old. Just about all books agree that the

horse completely changed Plains Indian culture, from one

that was largely stationary, chasing small game and

gathering food, to one that followed the bison.

 

I don't doubt that they hunted horse for food, but my

reading tells me that the Spaniards were having problems

with Indian horsemen within a couple of decades of Spanish

horses getting loose.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 03:48pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#51 of 210)

 

Proper American? You are the definition of a

self-rightoues idiot American. Did your little

history class teach you about how we wrapped the

indians in disease ridden blankets to save

bullets?

 

I didn't think I needed to put it in quotes to show the

irony of it. I guess I did. By the way, the incident with

the blankets certainly happened, but there seems to be some

dispute about whether the disease spread in that way could

actually have been successfully transferred.

 

The indians weren't farmers, huh? How did they

teach us to grow native crops like corn?

 

Go back and read what I wrote. I never said "The Indians"

or "all Indians." There were agricultural tribes in the

Southwest and in the Northeast. There were apparently such

tribes in the Ohio River Valley as well, though the

Moundbuilder civilization goes away before the Europeans

arrive, and we have to make deductions based on the

evidence that these were agricultural societies simply

because of their size. Far more typical were

hunter-gatherer tribes.

 

Go back to school if you want to make statements

like that.

 

For what? I already have an MA in History, specialized in

American history. So far, you have demonstrated substantial

ignorance of the subject.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 03:49pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#52 of 210)

 

Clayton, what if the Germans justified the Jewish

holocaust in the same way you are justifying the

Indian holocaust?

 

Where did I do that?

 

People who think like you are dangerous. The fact

that you have an arsenal of guns and the

constitution memorized verbatim is scary.

 

The fact that you can't seem to read is pretty amazing.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 03:56pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#53 of 210)

 

Yes, and they used every last bit of the bison.

 

Almost all hunter-gatherer societies use the whole animal

-- hunting is a relatively energy intensive way to get

food, and you can't afford to waste what you catch. Many of

the white settlers were also pretty good about not wasting

an animal, as long as they were cut off from the industrial

East. The great wasting of bison, such as killing them for

their tongues and hides, and leaving the rest of the animal

to rot, is part of an era where railroads made

transportation of the "good parts" to the East cheap, and

there were also incentives to destroy the bison herds

provided by the federal government as part of their

campaign to starve out the Plains Indians.

 

Certainly, some tribes had a mystical relationship with

their prey, nicely captured in the portrayal of killing a

deer at the beginning of the most recent version of _The

Last of the Mohicans_, but the "Indians lived in harmony

with Mother Nature because they loved it so" is a modern

eco-fantasy. Almost any practices, including the worst

pollution industrial activities, wouldn't do much damage

with a million or so people in what is now the lower 48

states. The carrying capacity of an ecosystem has a lot to

do with density.

-------------------------

gramps - 04:06pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#54 of 210)

 

I can't give you the title (maybe later, I've loaned the

book) but there is an excellent book written by a professor

(U of Texas) about the history of the mustangs. In it, he

very carefully debunks the theory of the horse being

introduced by the De Soto expedition, and was really

introduced to the plains by the later expeditions (1600's).

He also states (again from my memory, and I'm subject to

some error) that the horses were probably coexistant wqith

the plains indians for perhaps a hundred years before the

indians truly took the horse as a weapon of war.

 

There is an excellent account of when the high chief of the

commanche met with the governor of Mexico, early in

1700's(??). The governor of mexico was concerned about the

americans entering into the southwest, and wished to form

an alliance with the commanche to fight off the trespass

into New Mexico, Texas, etc. The governor offered the chief

as many guns and horses as he wished, if he would agree to

chase off the americans. the chief thought about it for a

minute, and said, "No, I will steal all your horses, and

you cannot stop me". Indeed, the commanche stole all 12,000

horses of the mexican army, and the governor had to send to

Spain for more....

-------------------------

gramps - 04:11pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#55 of 210)

 

Wrong, not De Soto, but Ponce De Leon, 1513..... He didn't

have the horses along to start a herd, and all the hoses

were accounted for.

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(155 following messages)

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-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 04:11pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#56 of 210)

 

I can't give you the title (maybe later, I've

loaned the book) but there is an excellent book

written by a professor (U of Texas) about the

history of the mustangs. In it, he very carefully

debunks the theory of the horse being introduced

by the De Soto expedition, and was really

introduced to the plains by the later expeditions

(1600's). He also states (again from my memory,

and I'm subject to some error) that the horses

were probably coexistant wqith the plains indians

for perhaps a hundred years before the indians

truly took the horse as a weapon of war.

 

Hmmm. That doesn't match what we learned in History of

Mexico class. One of the books we used made a point of the

fact that within a few years of the first Spanish

settlements in what is now New Mexico, in the late 1500s, I

think, there were Spanish "horse control" laws in place

prohibiting the sale or release of horses, since they were

already recognized as powerful weapons of war for the

Indians. (These wouldn't have been Plains Indians, of

course.)

 

There is an excellent account of when the high

chief of the commanche met with the governor of

Mexico, early in 1700's(??). The governor of

mexico was concerned about the americans entering

into the southwest, and wished to form an

alliance with the commanche to fight off the

trespass into New Mexico, Texas, etc. The

governor offered the chief as many guns and

horses as he wished, if he would agree to chase

off the americans. the chief thought about it for

a minute, and said, "No, I will steal all your

horses, and you cannot stop me". Indeed, the

commanche stole all 12,000 horses of the mexican

army, and the governor had to send to Spain for

more....

 

That couldn't have been in the early 1700s. The only

invaders of the Southwest that would have been a concern

would have been French. In the early 1800s, after the

Louisiana Purchase, this was a real concern. Of course by

then, the Plains Indians were superb horsemen with

generations of experience at it.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:12pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#57 of 210)

 

I already have an MA in History

 

That figures, a cop-out degree.

 

You also appear to be an expert on computers, guns,

practicing law, astronomy, physics, etc. Pretty amazing

stuff for somebody with a degree in history!

 

My brother in law, who graduated Harvard law school and now

practices at a law firm in NY City told me about people

like you. People that don't know the fundamentals of law,

but can B.S. others into thinking they know a lot.

-------------------------

gramps - 04:13pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#58 of 210)

 

De Soto, in 1541, probably did introduce the horse to the

plains...

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:16pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#59 of 210)

 

Go back and read what I wrote. I never said "The Indians"

or "all Indians." There were agricultural tribes in the

Southwest and in the Northeast.

 

Yes you did.

 

Gee, you are as knowledgeable about the Indians as

everything you else that you talk about.

 

1. Very few Indians in what is now the U.S. were farmers

(and many of the tribes that were, aren't around anymore).

The Cherokees in Georgia became very competent at farming

(right down to owning black slaves), but this was as they

became proper Americans, and left behind much of their

Indian past.

 

2. Reservations shrinking? No. In fact, some tribes are

beginning to win settlements for land taken from them

illegally in the past.

 

3. Bison? Sorry, but the hunting of bison was a short-lived

activity of the Plains Indians after they acquired horses

from the Spaniards. That culture has little to do with the

vast majority of the Indian tribes in the U.S.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 04:19pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#60 of 210)

 

>I already have an MA in History

 

That figures, a cop-out degree.

 

You also appear to be an expert on computers,

guns, practicing law, >astronomy, physics, etc.

Pretty amazing stuff for somebody with a >degree

in history!

 

My major was history; my minor was computer science. I've

worked as a software engineer for more than 20 years. I've

been a gun dealer. I've built telescopes starting from two

glass blanks and a mound of abrasives. I worked at Jet

Propulsion Labs on the Voyager mission's telemetry

processing software when I was 18. I've been author or

co-author on three law review articles. I have five books

published, one of which has been cited as an authority in a

federal court decision [USA v. Emerson (N.D.Texas 1999)].

I've roofed houses, put up wallboard, and a dozen other

things that don't fit my profession or my education. I

guess I am a little unusual.

 

My brother in law, who graduated Harvard law

school and now >practices at a law firm in NY

City told me about people like you. >People that

don't know the fundamentals of law, but can B.S.

others >into thinking they know a lot.

 

Have him visit my web page http://www.ggnra.org/cramer.

Perhaps he can point out some holes in my facade. :-)

-------------------------

gramps - 04:20pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#61 of 210)

 

"That couldn't have been in the early 1700s. The only

invaders of the Southwest that would have been a concern

would have been French. In the early 1800s, after the

Louisiana Purchase, this was a real concern. Of course by

then, the Plains Indians were superb horsemen with

generations of experience at it."

 

I don't know when Jedadiah(sp) Smith was doing his thing,

but there were many behind him. Perhaps you are right, my

grasp of the dates are admittedly weak.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 04:20pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#62 of 210)

 

Go back and read what I wrote. I never said "The

Indians" or "all Indians." There were

agricultural tribes in the Southwest and in the

Northeast.

 

Yes you did.

 

Gee, you are as knowledgeable about the Indians

as everything you else that you talk about.

 

>1. Very few Indians in what is now the U.S. were

farmers (and many of the tribes that were, aren't

around anymore). The Cherokees in Georgia became

very competent at farming (right down to owning

black slaves), but this was as they became proper

Americans, and left behind much of their Indian

past.

 

And once again you demonstrate that you can't read. You

quote me as saying "Very few Indians" and then assert that

I said "All Indians." Amazing.

-------------------------

(148 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:21pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#63 of 210)

 

Let's really take a minute to pick this apart, turbo

history fighter.

 

1. Very few Indians in what is now the U.S. were farmers

(and many of the tribes that were, aren't around anymore).

The Cherokees in Georgia became very competent at farming

(right down to owning black slaves), but this was as they

became proper Americans, and left behind much of their

Indian past.

 

Is this not implying that they did not farm until they were

taught to be proper Americans?

 

2. Reservations shrinking? No. In fact, some tribes are

beginning to win settlements for land taken from them

illegally in the past.

 

Illegally taken? Like North America? Illegally compared to

what? I am on the understanding they didn't suscribe to

British, or later American, laws. Such as deeds to land.

 

-------------------------

gramps - 04:24pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#64 of 210)

 

MU, there were many treaties that were made and ignored by

the Americans. yes, the indians were predominately

wanderers, who traveled across a very fertile and rich

land, not farming it. "gatherers and Hunters"?? nomadic

suits me just fine as a label.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:29pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#65 of 210)

 

You sure that degree wasn't a BS degree?

 

Now you publish papers on law too? It's pretty amazing the

courts would accept such works from somebody that isn't

liscenced to practice law.

 

I was on the understanding that you have to go to school

for 8 years to do that.

 

I worked at Jet Propulsion Labs on the Voyager mission's

telemetry processing software when I was 18.

 

Wow, that's pretty amazing stuff considering Jet Propulsion

Labs let an 18 year old without a degree work on "telemetry

processing software." You sure you weren't answering the

phone in the front office? Or getting coffee and donuts for

the engineers?

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 04:40pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#66 of 210)

 

Let's really take a minute to pick this apart,

turbo history fighter.

 

1. Very few Indians in what is now the U.S. were farmers

(and many of the tribes that were, aren't around anymore).

The Cherokees in Georgia became very competent at farming

(right down to owning black slaves), but this was as they

became proper Americans, and left behind much of their

Indian past.

 

Is this not implying that they did not farm until

they were taught to be proper Americans?

 

"Proper Americans" was intended to be a humorous poke at

the fact that the Cherokees absorbed the white culture of

Georgia so effectively that they became substantial

slaveowners as well as farmers.

 

Most Indian tribes who did not farm until the arrival of

the Europeans.

 

2. Reservations shrinking? No. In fact, some tribes are

beginning to win settlements for land taken from them

illegally in the past.

 

Illegally taken? Like North America? Illegally

compared to what? I am on the understanding they

didn't suscribe to British, or later American,

laws. Such as deeds to land.

 

First of all, many parts of what is now the United States

were actually purchased, such as big chunks of

Pennsylvania, and many of the lands of the Mississippi

River Valley. Some of these sales were sold by chiefs who

lacked authority to act on the tribe's behalf (and both

alcohol and bribery play a part in some of these); others

were sales by one tribe of someone else's land (apparently

the case with the infamous sale of Manhattan Island).

 

Some were sales where communication and cultural problems

prevented both sides from fully understanding what was

being sold. (If you think this is insulting to the Indians,

consider what happens when land is sold today excluding the

subsurface mineral rights.)

 

As I read through memoirs, papers, and histories of Indiana

for the 1820-1840 period, one especially poignant case

involved Indian tribes selling their lands to Americans

(both white and black) and moving west, because all the

game had left, and it was no longer practical to continue

to live in their traditional ways. De Tocqueville mentions

that in many areas of Michigan, the arrival of American

settlers drove out the game on which the Indians survived,

forcing the movement of Indians west. While not

intentional, the Americans definitely benefited from this

loss of game.

 

The cases to which I was referring, however, were the sales

of Indian lands that were not approved by the federal

government. The courts are still grinding away on one 1790s

sale that involves about 1/6 of Maine -- which is worth a

pile of money today.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 04:44pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#67 of 210)

 

You sure that degree wasn't a BS degree?

 

Now you publish papers on law too? It's pretty

amazing the courts would accept such works from

somebody that isn't liscenced to practice law.

 

If it doubt, visit my web page. Some of my listed law

review articles there are actually linked to the web site

of the law review.

 

I was on the understanding that you have to go to

school for 8 years to do that.

 

Your understanding is, as usual, deficient.

 

I worked at Jet Propulsion Labs on the Voyager mission's

telemetry processing software when I was 18.

 

Wow, that's pretty amazing stuff considering Jet

Propulsion Labs let an 18 year old without a

degree work on "telemetry processing software."

You sure you weren't answering the phone in the

front office? Or getting coffee and donuts for

the engineers?

 

Absolutely sure. I coded in Univac 1530 assembly language

for the near-real-time telemetry processing system. One of

the programs I wrote extracted 24 bits of engineering data

out of every 480 bit general science frame; other programs

performed similar stream processing activities. I was in

over my head a bit, and after a year or so, the contractor

for whom I formally worked fired me, though by that point,

I think I had just about reached an adequate level of

competence. (Sometimes we learn what we need to learn too

late!) I wasn't the only non-degreed person writing

software, just the youngest.

-------------------------

(143

following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:56pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#68 of 210)

 

Your understanding is, as usual, deficient.

 

Let me rephrase that. If you want to write papers about law

for courts, you are required to have a liscence to do so.

 

Quit lying, you wrote a bunch of history books that only

university kids have read.

 

I know only modern frame (packet) types, but

 

480 bit general science frame.

 

makes me think you are still in over your head.

 

No, I KNOW it. "general science frame"??? NOPE

 

I have a flux capacitor that powers my holodeck, too.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 05:23pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#69 of 210)

 

Your story sounded so bogus I bothered looking it up.

Unisys doesn't seem to recall a "Univac 1530."

 

1100 series and 2200 series, but no recolection of a 1500

series.

 

I have, for some time, hypothesized that you post crap that

you make up because you figure people won't argue with it,

and you hope it will reinforce your gun agenda.

-------------------------

gramps - 05:30pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#70 of 210)

 

Whoa, MU. I have been doin' this stuff awhile, myself. Does

a 480 bit "science word" make sense? Sure does. Even if it

didn't come from a horizontal architecure hardware

interface, lots of the early systems had to have some sort

of "record format", which was bit, not byte.

 

Univac existed at the pleasure of the US government. IBM

decided early on that they would not allow more than 10% of

thier business to go to the government, since the feds have

a habit of "dictating" the rules, and IBM wanted a free

hand. So, Univac stepped right up for all that money.

Fortunately, IBM was right again, and Univac is barely a

memory.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 05:33pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#71 of 210)

 

general science frames? Nah.

 

-------------------------

gramps - 05:36pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#72 of 210)

 

hey, this is the US GOVERNMENT. Yes, "general sciece

frames", from the people who insisted that there weren't

any programming languages that were "adequate", so they

INVENTED ADA!! ADA, of course, is the language that is

written by 200,000 people, and understood by 200 people.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 05:37pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#73 of 210)

 

An 18 year old working on a government defense project as a

computer scientist in the 60's or 70's? Nah.

 

I have been reading his posts, and about half of them sound

fabricated.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 05:41pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#74 of 210)

 

Okay, in all fairness I will look up ADA.

 

I doubt there will be any findings on "general science

packets" because they don't exist.

 

I have a flux capacitor that matches Clayton's 480 bit

general science frames.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 05:56pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#75 of 210)

 

>Your understanding is, as usual, deficient.

 

Let me rephrase that. If you want to write papers

about law for courts, you are required to have a

liscence to do so.

 

Quit lying, you wrote a bunch of history books

that only university kids have read.

 

Try http://www.nrawinningteam.com/cummings.html/ for a copy

of the decision, which is under appeal to the 5th Circuit

Court of Appeals. The Northern District of Texas web site

doesn't seem to be responding at the moment.

 

I know only modern frame (packet) types, but

 

480 bit general science frame.

 

makes me think you are still in over your head.

 

No, I KNOW it. "general science frame"??? NOPE

 

I have a flux capacitor that powers my holodeck,

too.

 

There's nothing worse than a fool who thinks he knows

something. The Voyager project had several different

telemetry schemes. The ones that I remember well were the

General Science stream and the Imaging stream. I still have

a copy of the document describing the system that I worked

on.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 06:00pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#76 of 210)

 

Your story sounded so bogus I bothered looking it

up. Unisys doesn't seem to recall a "Univac

1530."

 

1100 series and 2200 series, but no recolection

of a 1500 series.

 

Let me quote from the following JPL design document:

"Mariner Jupiter/Saturn 1977 Mission Test and Telemetry

System Software Planning Document, Volume 1, Design", 1

June 1976, on p. 18:

 

MJSTPP: Univac 1530 computer, 65K 30-bit words

 

(Mariner Jupiter/Saturn was renamed Voyager shortly before

launch in 1977.)

 

The 1530 was the civilian version of one of the AN/UYK

series, I believe.

 

I have, for some time, hypothesized that you post

crap that you make up because you figure people

won't argue with it, and you hope it will

reinforce your gun agenda.

 

You just shot yourself in the foot on this one. I worked

there from late August 1975 to June of 1976. I was assigned

to section 918. The section leader was Dick Foster. My

immediate boss was Judy Cohen, who was a direct JPL

employee.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 06:03pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#77 of 210)

 

An 18 year old working on a government defense

project as a computer scientist in the 60's or

70's? Nah.

 

My formal title was Member of Technical Staff. If there

were computer scientists in existence then, they were

largely confined to the ivory tower. I was atypical, but

not completely so. I had friends who worked at JPL a couple

of years later in similar capacities who weren't college

graduates.

 

I have been reading his posts, and about half of

them sound fabricated.

 

That's because you are assuming that your limitations today

are the same as the limitations that applied 25 years ago,

when the world was young, and there were few people

available to program computers in assembly language.

 

By the way, if I was making this all up, why would I tell

you that they fired me because I was in over my head?

-------------------------

(133 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

MostlyUnknown - 08:09pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#78 of 210)

 

There's nothing worse than a fool who thinks he knows

something. The Voyager project had several different

telemetry schemes. The ones that I remember well were the

General Science stream and the Imaging stream. I still have

a copy of the document describing the system that I worked

on.

 

There is nothing worse than a fool who posts things which

are unverifiable and almost impossible for people to have

knowledge of to desperately try to sound over people's

heads.

 

I am certified in networking by both Novell and Microsoft.

They made me learn obsolete protocol stacks and obsolete

frame types just to make the tests harder to pass. I

seriously doubt that this proposed 480 bit general science

protocol existed, but if it did, why bring it up other than

to try to sound over people's heads?

 

I have been formally educated on recent UNIX security hacks

and encryption schemes, as well as most modern visual

programming languages. I have worked in JCL and other 3270

junk, but I don't buy that those jobs will be around for

more than another 10 or 15 years. And yes, I bothered

learning assembly on my own so I could program closer to

the metal in C++; I was a system administrator for a

Novell/UNIX/NT network of 400 computers, including a 3720

gateway, for over a year. I bailed the job to live in

Canada because I figured the cultural experience far

outweighted work experience.

 

I won't argue to much about extrememly obsolete

languages/hardware because they are obsolete and not worth

learning. I probably know more about the Commodore Vic 20

than you, but who cares.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:10pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#79 of 210)

 

My print server probably has more RAM than your Unisys

thingie that probably filled an entire room.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:26pm Jul 20, 1999 MDT (#80 of 210)

 

On a lighter note, IBM reference manuals are the perfect

cure for insomnia. :)

-------------------------

ekle - 03:50am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#81 of 210)

 

I once had (and still do) an Apple GS, w/ 512K. WITH

APPLEWORKS

 

does that count for anything? :)

-------------------------

Ivan Wine - 04:06am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#82 of 210)

 

I had one of those. The house got struck by lightning and

fried my little GS. I decided to go with an IBM clone,

instead of a Mac (and to get a surge protector too) I used

to love Dazzle Draw, and Karateka, Star Blazer, and the

entire EAMON series. Not to mention Sierras old classics...

 

-------------------------

gramps - 08:40am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#83 of 210)

 

packet - a small package Webster

 

packet - pty master communication with stste chages in the

pty slave Unix

 

packet - packet switching, remote connectivity options,

CCITT X.25 standard

 

packet - a block of data sent over the network transmitting

the identities of the sending and receiving stations, Guide

to connectivity

 

packet - frames (transmitted packets) NETbios, one byte SAP

value, DLC and LLC logic, IBM Token rings

-------------------------

Dusty Bee - 08:45am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#84 of 210)

 

I don't know Mostly....Clayton seems pretty legit to me. He

even looks like I suspected he would. Other than that....I

have no idea what you guys are talking about.....

-------------------------

gramps - 08:51am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#85 of 210)

 

That's the whole point, Dusty.... if you knew what CCITT

X.25 was, that would destroy the whole mystik of net

gurus....

-------------------------

panda paws - 09:58am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#86 of 210)

 

LOL Dusty..you just made me laugh for a good five minutes!!

I thought that Clayton would be a little less hairy! But

now that I have taken a good look...it kinda suits him!;)

-------------------------

Dusty Bee - 10:35am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#87 of 210)

 

gramps:

 

I still do not know what you are talking about?!

 

panda paws:

 

Now you got me cracking up! He looks very intellectual to

me! It is hard to converse with people going on three

months now and not be curious as to what they look like. I

have conjured up an image of Mostly Unknown, but I would

prefer to see his picture!

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:10am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#88 of 210)

 

Hehe. I have done the same and formed images of each person

on here. I am guessing they probably aren't too far off,

but I could be completely wrong. I learned my lesson when I

went on that blind date. :)

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:14am Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#89 of 210)

 

CCITT (Comite Consulatif Internationale de Telegraphie et

Telephonie)

 

Based on Geneva, Switzerland, and established as part of

the UN International Telecommunications Union (ITU). It is

an organization that recommends communcations standards for

modems, networks, and fax transmissions.

 

X.25 was originally developed for mainframe environments.

 

In 1988 CCITT defined ATM, which is a high speed frame

relay packet switching network for LAN's or WAN's.

-------------------------

Daniel Dvorkin - 03:26pm Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#90 of 210)

 

Some day, there will be conversations like:

 

"I worked on a Power Mac 9600."

 

"Liar! There was no Power Mac 9600!"

 

"Yes there was. Read the AppleIBMMicrosoftSun Inc. TIL

archives."

 

"Yeah, well, I hand-coded HTML ..."

 

"That's impossible!"

 

Etc.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 04:12pm Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#91 of 210)

 

What? There was no such thing as a Pentium III. Intel

manufactured the Pentium II, but then went bankrupt because

AMD took them over!

-------------------------

(119 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Daniel Dvorkin - 05:50pm Jul 21, 1999 MDT (#92 of 210)

 

Mostly, yeah. That kind of thing.

-------------------------

ekle - 08:02am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#93 of 210)

 

Ivan,

 

Ill make you a deal, w/ printer, nice little 3.5 AND 5.25,

and incl. a 256k 2UPGRADE2 TO MAKE IT TO 512k.I even had to

PAY for that. And a cool monitor. is it an antique yet?

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:33am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#94 of 210)

 

I still have a PCjr somewhere in storage. It had the 256k

upgrade module!!! Talk about just screaming fast. "Hard

drives are for lazy people with too much money." Remember

that argument? hehe

-------------------------

gramps - 08:38am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#95 of 210)

 

c'mon. I'll you folks don't even know how to punch holes in

a 5081 card, or read machine language

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 08:38am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#96 of 210)

 

But did you ever play Zork?

 

North, South, East, or West?

:P

-------------------------

gramps - 09:04am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#97 of 210)

 

Nope. I don't know computer games at all, if that was

directed at me.

 

But I can add hex in my head, and translate IBM assembler

into neumonics mentally from hex dumps, even though I

haven't dealt with a mainframe for 10 years. Such wonderful

skills.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 09:18am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#98 of 210)

 

Ewww. Hex dumps. Those are the things that come out of a

notty COBOL program. I can quickly skip over it and look

for the error message that is in English. I had a teacher

once who used to gloat about being able to do binary

operations in her head. Sounds pretty painful. No wonder

they used to pay you guys so much!

-------------------------

Ivan Wine - 10:11am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#99 of 210)

 

Zork, oh yeah. I played 3 Zorks. Hitch hikers guide,

planetfall, Infocom rawked. Eamon was better in my opinion

though for one reason (that could also make it worse in

some cases) The person who created eamon (the text based

adventure game) released the code when he did it. He

incouraged people to make adventures for it, all that was

required was the beginners cave scenario to build your

character up. There are hundreds of Eamon adventures out

there.

 

As far as the gs being antique, well.. I dont think it is

yet, but I am just waiting for it to be en vogue to collect

old computers. I still have all my Apples. Including a tape

drive, and a few really odd things, like this strange thing

that read pieces of paper to program with (like a punch

card, with out the holes)

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:06am Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#100 of 210)

 

but I am just waiting for it to be en vogue to collect old

computers.

 

London seemed pretty big on old systems. Retro gaming they

call it. When I saw a Commodore Vic 20 in a shop window for

$80, I came back home and shined mine up.. They had quite a

few older systems, including the Timex-Sinclair,

Intellivison, ColecoVision, etc. They were proud (money

wise) of all of them.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:54pm Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#101 of

210)

 

It is clear that no one will talk about protecting love and

life here.

-------------------------

ekle - 01:26am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#102 of 210)

 

we are discussing things in a friendly (for the most part)

manner.

 

this is a building block.

 

we have talked about it, and will, but I fail to see us

"protecting love and live".

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:38am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#103 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher:

 

What do you expect? We were all hypnotized by the Natives.

By the way, you have not yet answered my questions, as to

how this is done? You rant on and on about this stuff, but

how is it done? I cannot believe, that the whole US

population got hypnotized

 

"by Native American Medicine people with an ancient, deeply

compelling form of hypnosis induced on children under 7

years that can control them to extremes throughout their

lives for the purpose of demonstrating the potentials for

abuse"

 

HOW ABOUT YOU GIVING CONCRETE EVIDENCE AS TO BY WHAT MEANS

THIS IS DONE? Do they sneak into child care centers?

Schools? TV hypnosis during cartoons? Hypnotic signals

being bounced off satelites? WHAT? HOW? Maybe, if you have

concrete answers here, I'd read it? But, so far, you have

not told me anything that even remotely resembles any

sense. Oh, I forgot, I don't know what sense is: I'VE BEEN

HYPNOTIZED. This means, I can post this message and then

fall on the floor laughing, since I don't know, what I'm

doing.

-------------------------

ekle - 09:17am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#104 of 210)

 

yep!

-------------------------

gramps - 09:51am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#105 of 210)

 

perhaps we are all living evidence, as Chris has pointed

out, we no longer care.....

-------------------------

panda paws - 09:58am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#106 of 210)

 

Nice point Gramps.

 

What I want to know is the bit about lost documentation.

That is more of a concern to me than how people are

hypnotised. If the government is hiding something than we

should all be intrested in what and why.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 10:06am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#107 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

panda paws:

 

What is REALLY interesting, is that no lawyer wants to

touch it. It's hard to believe that one! And, no Native

American Indian has posted here. Oh, well, probably too

busy hypnotising little children.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:26am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#108 of 210)

 

But when he starts going on about the hypnotism stuff his

lost documentation proposal loses quite a bit of validity.

 

Chris, you tell us we don't want to talk about love and

life, but you are forgetting that really (at least I) don't

see real value in discussing people getting hypnotized by

the government. What will we do to stop them from

hypnotizing people? Spank them?

-------------------------

(102 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

panda paws - 10:36am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#109 of 210)

 

Maid Miriam,

 

People seem very ready to dismiss this theory with out even

really considering the possiblities.

 

There has been so much knowledge lost and rediscovered, or

once laughed at by the west which are now held with

respect. I don't see why this should be any different.

 

The Inca Lines of Puru, the herbal medicines of China,

Acupucture pressure points, hypnosis, ancient maps of the

Arctic before the polar ice caps...navigation before the

dicovery of longitude and latitude, astronomy, astrology,

auras, fortune telling, dreams, tarot cards, palm

reading...the list goes on.

 

I don't know whether I believe in all or any of this but I

sureaint going to rule it out as a joke.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:56am Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#110 of 210)

 

Yes, but he hasn't provided any real evidence other than

"the government is hiding it."

 

I could easily say that the U.S. government has made drugs

illegal because the aliens told them they wanted them all

for themselves. They told them that they would blow up

earth if we don't give them all our weed. The government

just hid the evidence!

 

But that wouldn't make it valid or true. It would be

ridiculous.

-------------------------

gramps - 12:03pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#111 of 210)

 

Sorry, but the pattern is somewhat consistent.

 

"Paranoid" is that "They" are out to get "me" or "us".

"They" are often (choose one) CIA, FBI, Federal Government,

The President, the Pope, IBM, and sometimes, it's just

simply "they".

 

How about the fact that the Spainish destroyed all written

artifacts of the Incas, Myans and Aztecs, so that they

could more readily converted to Christianity?

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 12:15pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#112 of 210)

 

Oh whatever, I bet $1 that you don't buy Christopher's

Indian Medicine People story of mass hypnosis.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 12:18pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#113 of 210)

 

While I think that Chris's opinion is important, and any

opinion has a place here, I don't think that mass hypnosis

is worth discussing as a reason why society is

degenerating.

 

So tell us gramps, how is the hypnosis thing happening

again?

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 02:03pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#114 of 210)

 

There is nothing worse than a fool who posts

things which are unverifiable and almost

impossible for people to have knowledge of to

desperately try to sound over people's heads.

 

Actually, I responded with a detailed description of what I

did at JPL because you called me a liar.

 

I am certified in networking by both Novell and

Microsoft. They made me learn obsolete protocol

stacks and obsolete frame types just to make the

tests harder to pass. I seriously doubt that this

proposed 480 bit general science protocol

existed, but if it did, why bring it up other

than to try to sound over people's heads?

 

Has it occurred to you that spacecraft are not exactly

commercial products? That networking, in the modern sense,

didn't exist when these systems were designed in the early

1970s?

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 02:06pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#115 of 210)

 

How about the fact that the Spainish destroyed

all written artifacts of the Incas, Myans and

Aztecs, so that they could more readily converted

to Christianity?

 

How about that Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs lacked a written

language? The Mayans had calendars, and the Incas had a

system of knots for recording numeric data, but the Spanish

didn't destroy written artifacts -- there weren't any.

 

We do have written accounts of Aztec and Inca life, but

these were written down a generation later, often by the

children of a Spanish father and an Indian mother -- and

they didn't write in Aztec or Inca.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 02:11pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#116 of 210)

 

In 1988 CCITT defined ATM, which is a high speed

frame relay packet switching network for LAN's or

WAN's.

 

Uh, no, not quite. ATM is a packet switching protocol (not

a network), but it isn't a form of frame relay, but more of

an alternative to it. ATM is also used in a number of

situations where you need a transport protocol besides LANs

and WANs. For example, the product that I work on, a DSL

Access Multiplexer, uses ATM to transport data over phone

lines from customer premises back into an ATM cloud.

 

You might find the discussion at the beginning of Uyless

Black, _ATM Volume III: Internetworking with ATM_ (Upper

Saddle River, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1998) useful in

understanding the difference between ATM and Frame Relay.

-------------------------

gramps - 02:11pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#117 of 210)

 

when visiting the Yucatan(sp) penn., on a tour, I rememebr

how the tour guide was talking about Mayan History, and how

the Spanish destroyed 99% of it. I believe it wasn't

"written", more of the glyphs type, and faintly remember

something of the same sort on one of those history channel

shows. Can't come up with any specifics, however.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 02:15pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#118 of 210)

 

when visiting the Yucatan(sp) penn., on a tour, I

rememebr how the tour guide was talking about

Mayan History, and how the Spanish destroyed 99%

of it. I believe it wasn't "written", more of the

glyphs type, and faintly remember something of

the same sort on one of those history channel

shows. Can't come up with any specifics, however.

 

Calling them writing is a bit much. The notion that the

Spanish engaged in a deliberate destruction to simplify

evangelism is silly; for the most part, the Spanish

destroyed stuff for being pagan and therefore idolatrous,

not because they expected it to hold the population back.

Keep in mind that Mayan civilization appears to have

self-destructed before the Spanish arrived, and some Mayans

may feel a need to blame the Spanish for city destruction

that was apparently done by the Mayans.

-------------------------

gramps - 02:42pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#119 of 210)

 

Not exactly. More that they feel the need to know more

about thier own history, and as you have agreed, much of

that was destroyed by the Spanish as being "Pagan". As I

understand it, they are well aware of the turmoil that

ended thier own society was internal; I think they are

simply sad that they have lost much of thier own history.

Now that you said that, I recall something of a detailed

description of the "city wars" that brought the empire

down.

-------------------------

(91 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

 

 

MostlyUnknown - 06:20pm Jul 23, 1999 MDT (#120 of 210)

 

Uh, no, not quite. ATM is a packet switching protocol (not

a network),

 

<*sigh*> It is a packet switching frame relay network

protocol

 

but it isn't a form of frame relay, but more of an

alternative to it. ATM is also used in a number of

situations where you need a transport protocol besides LANs

and WANs.

 

LANs and WANs aren't protocols! (I know you knew this, just

picking at your stuff like you picked at mine) You can use

ATM on Coaxial, TP, Fiber Optic, FDDI, Fiber Channel, OC3

SONET, and T3.

 

I just looked it up, you're right, it's not frame relay.

 

You might find the discussion at the beginning of Uyless

Black, _ATM Volume III: Internetworking with ATM_ (Upper

Saddle River, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1998) useful in

understanding the difference between ATM and Frame Relay.

 

Thanks for the link, but I have been screwing with those

tests for a year, just got the "papers" not but a few

months ago, and am not in the mood for "new information." I

have been tripping on writing powerful encryption that the

government frowns on just to be defiant lately.

-------------------------

ekle - 04:50am Jul 27, 1999 MDT (#121 of 210)

 

"As I understand it, they are well aware of the turmoil

that ended thier own society was internal";

 

I think this is the route we as a society are going.

 

when I read that quote, I thought, damn it fits right in.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 11:43am Jul 27, 1999 MDT (#122 of 210)

 

Well our military is so strong that the only likely way

(currently at least) that our society could fail would be

internally.

 

E.g. people stop believing that the system is taking care

of it's own people.

 

E.g. me.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 12:23pm Jul 27, 1999 MDT (#123 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher:

 

Are you ill???? I'm still waiting for the answers to my

questions. And, why are there no Native American Medicine

people web sites? No home pages? No explaining their

compulsion to spring an ancient, deeply compelling form of

hypnosis on children under 7 years that can control them to

extremes throughout their lives? This forum here would be

perfect for them to alert us to the danger. Are you

vacationing at tax payer's cost? Have you tried green

tea??? I hear, it's good for you.

-------------------------

ekle - 01:42am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#124 of 210)

 

e.g. me too!

-------------------------

Ivan Wine - 06:39am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#125 of 210)

 

RE:Well our military is so strong that the only likely way

(currently at least) that our society could fail would be

internally.

 

Our navy has been cut waaay back, and the Chinese have a

much better airforce.

-------------------------

ekle - 06:47am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#126 of 210)

 

not even currently.

 

my big question is: After looking at the problems in the

Middle East, China against Taiwan, uncertainty in Russia

(etc), and among other problems.... why are we cutting back

on the military sooo much. Sure, it needed some trimming,

but not everything that has been done.

 

The world´s future is not bright, most of the world hates

us, and we keep cutting back.

 

Things that make you go hmmmmmm

-------------------------

panda paws - 08:19am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#127 of 210)

 

RE "my big question is: After looking at the problems in

the Middle East, China against Taiwan, uncertainty in

Russia (etc), and among other problems.... why are we

cutting back on the military sooo much. Sure, it needed

some trimming, but not everything that has been done"

 

.and it's up to the United States of America to save us???

 

I would assume this it what you ment simply because I can't

imagine anyone declaring war in the USA....the only reason

why the USA would need such a huge military is to step in

and act as Bg Brother.

-------------------------

ekle - 08:32am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#128 of 210)

 

You are right in the Big Brother sense, but,

 

many many people and organizations have already "declared

war" on thge USA. They dont come out and say it, but its

true. Look at the embassy bombings, look at terrorism.

 

No, it not up for the US to save ya, but the US has

interests everywhere. Th world is alot more complex than

just playing big bro for everyone.

-------------------------

panda paws - 08:46am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#129 of 210)

 

"Look at the embassy bombings, look at terrorism. "

 

Are you talking about the Chinese Embassy?? Where the US ,

one of the most advanced milatary in the world

"accidentally" used old street maps and bombed the wrong

building numerous times??? Killing innocent people while

they did so?

 

Or are you talking about the millions of dollars invested

into the IRA by Americans wanting to help the Cause???

 

RE: "No, it not up for the US to save ya, but the US has

interests everywhere. The world is alot more complex than

just playing big bro for everyone."

 

Most of these "other intrests" I presume are profit

driven.....

 

There is no real reason why any government should be

spending millions of pounds improving a military when they

have their own social problems to deal with.

-------------------------

ekle - 09:08am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#130 of 210)

 

you are exactly right, and I agree with you.

 

But, what I am talking about is Lebanon, Africa, (in the

near past), World Trade. I am not EVEN considering the

China embassy. I am talking about things donme against the

US. That was clear.

 

I dont know about the IRA thing, cant comment.

 

other interests, profit, but not only. If things happen in

other countries, it will affect us too. Its nice to think

thats why we do things. One thing you absolutely must

understand. America is not just America. There´s the

american govt AND America. There is a difference, so please

dont mix them up. Not everything that is done is approved

by the American people. If there are still questions, think

about what I said before. The world is a very complex

place....

 

And, its strange that all the "money" being saved is not

really going back into the system, is it?

-------------------------

(80 following messages)

-------------------------

 

gramps - 09:13am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#131 of 210)

 

some comments, probably won't make any sense to anybody....

 

the embassies, I'm sure were the african ones bombed

earlier

 

not every U.S. involvement has large economic

underpinnings. Certainly the middle east, with the SAudi

oil, but Kosevo? Samalia? If you calin there are "secret"

reasons for these actions, you are being too cynical, IMHO.

 

The U.S. IS a target for a LOT of reasons, but the most

common is: we are too powerful. That allows two-bit despots

like Iraq to use us as a "target", where their WHOLE

purpose is to attack thier neighbor, primarily, to maintain

a military government in ther OWN state. The have a huge

standing army and no war will sooner or later, cause strife

within the country. The U.S. is somewhat exempt from this

rule, simply because the army isn't THAT huge compared to

the country itself. We barely feel the weight of what it

takes to support it. (Many who worry constantly about their

tax bill will scream at that, but when's the last time you

overspend your household budget because you forgot you had

to pay income tax? Or, if you look at your annual salary,

and you forget there are taxes?)

 

The U.S. learned long ago that festering problems

(Pakistan/India, North/South Korea, Yugoslavia, Iran/Iraq,

etc etc etc) will SOONER OR LATER come back and involve the

ENTIRE AREA, and yes we have interesets everywhere. But

look at the history of the first world war. Lots and lots

of "agreements" that bound coutries together in case of

war, then one little spark. The cold war alliances (Soviet

Union, warsaw, China, North Korea, Cuba..) are still in

place, even though there is argueable only ONE superpower

in today's world.

 

Just as a pistol makes a little creep "equal" to a monster

football player, nukes make ALL countries equally dangerous

in today's world.

-------------------------

ekle - 09:18am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#132 of 210)

 

thanks gramps, you read well.

 

but, almopst all of what we do has an "underlying" purpose.

Or, it just would not have been done.

-------------------------

panda paws - 10:15am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#133 of 210)

 

"Just as a pistol makes a little creep "equal" to a monster

football player, nukes make ALL countries equally dangerous

in today's world. "

 

Hmmmmm...but where does it stop? More bombs, more ships,

more subs. more more more. The race is never ending simply

because when you reach the end...there will be nothing left

to claim victory over.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 10:31am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#134 of 210)

 

Hmmmmm...but where does it stop? More bombs, more

ships, more subs. more more more. The race is

never ending simply because when you reach the

end...there will be nothing left to claim victory

over.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to have fallen into the moral

equivalency argument that sees the U.S. as the moral

equivalent of Iraq, or Serbia, or any of a number of Third

World governments run by thugs. This is not to say that

U.S. motives are always pure, or our foreign policy always

intelligent. (We do, after all, have President Clinton at

the helm.) But moral equivalency was an idea that

socialists promoted with great vigor throughout the first

few decades of this century, and at times with considerable

accuracy. But this notion of moral equivalency went up in

smoke at Auschwitz.

 

There are few moral governments, and U.S. foreign policy

has had way too much sanctimonious screeching blended with

narrow self-interest to take completely seriously. (As

opposed to French foreign policy, which is blatantly

self-interested, and will never be mistaken for human

rights concern.) But there are governments that are evil,

as opposed to stupidly and greedily self-interests, and

pretending moral equivalence between the U.S. government

and the Taliban is better propaganda than truth.

-------------------------

ekle - 02:17am Jul 29, 1999 MDT (#135 of 210)

 

(We do, after all, have President Clinton at the helm.)

 

whoop, says it all........

 

sorry to those who are offened

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:48am Jul 29, 1999 MDT (#136 of 210)

 

Say Clayton, I thought you were going to go to England.

Isle of Wight or something. I recommend going to Picadilly

Circus and then going to a place called "Equinox." It is a

night club but the left side has a ticket seller. He's got

a runner going to somewhere to get tickets that he then

sells at inflated prices. But he hooked us up with some

smooth tickets to the play Art. Spitting distance from Norm

Peterson!!

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:40pm Aug 20, 1999 MDT (#137 of

210)

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:54pm Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#101 of

136) It is clear that no one will talk about protecting

love and life here.

 

When I posted this message on July 22 I was shocked,

amazed, pissed off, blown out, etc. etc. Not by what you

clowns were saying but by the fact that when I clicked in

the message field and touched my keyboard THIS HAPPENED;

 

222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222

 

I worked the delete key against the advancing 2s in

different random timings, finally I was able to type a

response and I typed the message I copied and reposted.

 

I have been censored in this chat room when posting a

message that had what I will call the "M" word in it. My

post following this one will have the word and I WILL post

it immediatley following this post.

 

Dark Shadow. The hypnosis is done first with psychological

trauma on the chidl under seven. Then an undocumanted

technique using the eye is used. The eye technique was last

reffered to as the "evil eye" from the inquistiions

although Lawrence of Arabias book, "The seven pillars to

wisdom has a reference to it as is stated in the January

issue of National Geograpic Mag. There are aprox. four

factions that UNCONSCIOUSLY use this trance technique.

Unconsciousy means they don't know they are doing it so

they definitely won't be writing about it.

 

Maybe somebody who understands what this means and realizes

it about the only thing I can do to support with tmy words

here what I claim has happened.

 

I Christopher A. Brown Declare under the penalty of the

laws of purjury of the State of California that the

foregoing is true and correct.

-------------------------

(73 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

gramps - 09:13am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#131 of 210)

 

some comments, probably won't make any sense to anybody....

 

the embassies, I'm sure were the african ones bombed

earlier

 

not every U.S. involvement has large economic

underpinnings. Certainly the middle east, with the SAudi

oil, but Kosevo? Samalia? If you calin there are "secret"

reasons for these actions, you are being too cynical, IMHO.

 

The U.S. IS a target for a LOT of reasons, but the most

common is: we are too powerful. That allows two-bit despots

like Iraq to use us as a "target", where their WHOLE

purpose is to attack thier neighbor, primarily, to maintain

a military government in ther OWN state. The have a huge

standing army and no war will sooner or later, cause strife

within the country. The U.S. is somewhat exempt from this

rule, simply because the army isn't THAT huge compared to

the country itself. We barely feel the weight of what it

takes to support it. (Many who worry constantly about their

tax bill will scream at that, but when's the last time you

overspend your household budget because you forgot you had

to pay income tax? Or, if you look at your annual salary,

and you forget there are taxes?)

 

The U.S. learned long ago that festering problems

(Pakistan/India, North/South Korea, Yugoslavia, Iran/Iraq,

etc etc etc) will SOONER OR LATER come back and involve the

ENTIRE AREA, and yes we have interesets everywhere. But

look at the history of the first world war. Lots and lots

of "agreements" that bound coutries together in case of

war, then one little spark. The cold war alliances (Soviet

Union, warsaw, China, North Korea, Cuba..) are still in

place, even though there is argueable only ONE superpower

in today's world.

 

Just as a pistol makes a little creep "equal" to a monster

football player, nukes make ALL countries equally dangerous

in today's world.

-------------------------

ekle - 09:18am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#132 of 210)

 

thanks gramps, you read well.

 

but, almopst all of what we do has an "underlying" purpose.

Or, it just would not have been done.

-------------------------

panda paws - 10:15am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#133 of 210)

 

"Just as a pistol makes a little creep "equal" to a monster

football player, nukes make ALL countries equally dangerous

in today's world. "

 

Hmmmmm...but where does it stop? More bombs, more ships,

more subs. more more more. The race is never ending simply

because when you reach the end...there will be nothing left

to claim victory over.

-------------------------

Clayton Cramer - 10:31am Jul 28, 1999 MDT (#134 of 210)

 

Hmmmmm...but where does it stop? More bombs, more

ships, more subs. more more more. The race is

never ending simply because when you reach the

end...there will be nothing left to claim victory

over.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to have fallen into the moral

equivalency argument that sees the U.S. as the moral

equivalent of Iraq, or Serbia, or any of a number of Third

World governments run by thugs. This is not to say that

U.S. motives are always pure, or our foreign policy always

intelligent. (We do, after all, have President Clinton at

the helm.) But moral equivalency was an idea that

socialists promoted with great vigor throughout the first

few decades of this century, and at times with considerable

accuracy. But this notion of moral equivalency went up in

smoke at Auschwitz.

 

There are few moral governments, and U.S. foreign policy

has had way too much sanctimonious screeching blended with

narrow self-interest to take completely seriously. (As

opposed to French foreign policy, which is blatantly

self-interested, and will never be mistaken for human

rights concern.) But there are governments that are evil,

as opposed to stupidly and greedily self-interests, and

pretending moral equivalence between the U.S. government

and the Taliban is better propaganda than truth.

-------------------------

ekle - 02:17am Jul 29, 1999 MDT (#135 of 210)

 

(We do, after all, have President Clinton at the helm.)

 

whoop, says it all........

 

sorry to those who are offened

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:48am Jul 29, 1999 MDT (#136 of 210)

 

Say Clayton, I thought you were going to go to England.

Isle of Wight or something. I recommend going to Picadilly

Circus and then going to a place called "Equinox." It is a

night club but the left side has a ticket seller. He's got

a runner going to somewhere to get tickets that he then

sells at inflated prices. But he hooked us up with some

smooth tickets to the play Art. Spitting distance from Norm

Peterson!!

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:40pm Aug 20, 1999 MDT (#137 of

210)

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:54pm Jul 22, 1999 MDT (#101 of

136) It is clear that no one will talk about protecting

love and life here.

 

When I posted this message on July 22 I was shocked,

amazed, pissed off, blown out, etc. etc. Not by what you

clowns were saying but by the fact that when I clicked in

the message field and touched my keyboard THIS HAPPENED;

 

222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222

 

I worked the delete key against the advancing 2s in

different random timings, finally I was able to type a

response and I typed the message I copied and reposted.

 

I have been censored in this chat room when posting a

message that had what I will call the "M" word in it. My

post following this one will have the word and I WILL post

it immediatley following this post.

 

Dark Shadow. The hypnosis is done first with psychological

trauma on the chidl under seven. Then an undocumanted

technique using the eye is used. The eye technique was last

reffered to as the "evil eye" from the inquistiions

although Lawrence of Arabias book, "The seven pillars to

wisdom has a reference to it as is stated in the January

issue of National Geograpic Mag. There are aprox. four

factions that UNCONSCIOUSLY use this trance technique.

Unconsciousy means they don't know they are doing it so

they definitely won't be writing about it.

 

Maybe somebody who understands what this means and realizes

it about the only thing I can do to support with tmy words

here what I claim has happened.

 

I Christopher A. Brown Declare under the penalty of the

laws of purjury of the State of California that the

foregoing is true and correct.

-------------------------

(73 following messages)

-------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:51pm Aug 20, 1999 MDT (#138 of

210)

 

The "M" word is Mason. Masonic order. All but a few of our

presidents have been Masons. The ancient, secret form of

hypnosis I talk about is UNCONSCIOUSLY used by the Masonic

order so what ever they have done with it they don't know.

 

The Masons try very hard to be good. They are the only

faction that have a conscious code of conduct that applies

a limiter on their unconscious activities. They want to be

good and we should help them by MAKING OUR GOVERNMENT

FOLLOW LAWS so that the open and caring minds of our world

can have factual information to work with.

 

I started a thread that was only up for an hour or so

before that had talk of Masonry in it and I posted in a

thread. They both disapeared.

 

Again I apply this to underline my seriousness.

 

I Christopher A. Brown Declare under the penalty of the

laws of purjury of the State of California that the

foregoing is true and correct.

-------------------------

Robert Nash - 09:33am Aug 21, 1999 MDT (#139 of 210)

 

Hey Christopher,

 

You may want to clean or replace your keyboard. It sounds

like you have a sticky 2 key on your keypad. You may also

want to try some modern hypnosis in order to thwart the

evil secret hypnosis that you encounter daily. Either that,

or perhaps some anti-psychotic medication. I think you

might be happier if you were not living your life with so

much fear. The amount of stress you are putting yourself

through has to be incredible.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:16am Aug 21, 1999 MDT (#140 of 210)

 

I, MostlyUnknown, declare under penalty of the laws of

purjury of

the State of Police that green aliens are coming to invade

us

from a small planet in the gamma quadrant.

 

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 10:18am Aug 21, 1999 MDT (#141 of 210)

 

Either that, or perhaps some anti-psychotic medication.

 

Ya, like Thorazine.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 08:46am Aug 23, 1999 MDT (#142 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher:

 

You still have not answered my question: HOW DOES THE

HYPNOSIS REACH ALL OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN?????? I mean,

there are millions out there. You go on and on about this

thing, but so far, you have not answered once how the

hypnosis reaches the children. Do these Native American

Indian Medicine people go door to door, pretending to be

Jehovah Witnesses or what? HOW IS IT DONE????????? By gamma

rays, by osmosis, by beaming from satellites, full moon

rays? HOW?????

 

I, Dark Shadow, do hereby solemnly swear, that I have made

the above statement of my own free will (I think!) and with

a clear mind (I hope!).

 

I'm sure that you are totally convinced of this thing. But,

Christopher, if you don't provide concrete proof of how

this hypnosis reaches the little children, you're putting

yourself in danger of getting a new wardrobe and new

surroundings for years to come. Ask the voices to explain

to you, how the hypnosis TRAVELS TO MILLIONS OF LITTLE

CHILDREN, unless of course, there are millions of Native

American Indian Medicine people traveling????

 

Mostly, you crack me up (OOPS! *zap*, help, they got

me.....)

-------------------------

Christopher S. Heller - 11:14pm Aug 25, 1999 MDT (#143 of

210)

 

Hey Mr. Brown...nah! forget it. I don't do cheap shots.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 12:10am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#144 of

210)

 

R. Nash; The sticking key was the first thing I thought of.

Not the problem. Before any criticize what I bring LOOK at

what the native people have given me in the way of what is

most sacred to them of their past.

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/ (see shrines) What they

know is so sacred we (anglo, europeans, sons & daughters of

Masons) are terrified of it. It is our subconscious mind.

Yes it is stressful. The worst is the denial that manifests

in people NOT aknowledgeing and focusing on HOW TO PREVENT

this kind of violence. Look at this group. The active ones

all attack me. No talk of the truth of human history. There

is actually an example of a message simply saying "that

nothing is impossible" or something else supportive of

having an open mind. That person supporting was criticized

with "You're not actually taking any of this stuff

seriously are you?".

 

MU; Talk about awareness repression or spiritual scotoma.

Think about love then live. Be wary of compulsion.

 

Dark Shadow; I've told you how and that not all children

are influenced. http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/ has a

several descriptions of the occular activity (eye) used to

induce the trance, in "Missing knowledge" or a link from

"Todays Legal Trail", called "Understanding the Native

AMerican Mdicine Person".

 

Once a child of 7 or less has been inducted the

instructions they recieve the first time prevent them from

being able to remember what has happened.

 

There is another aspect. Telepathy. Filed by an attorney

for a Medicine man I sued for "Hypnotic Manipulation" is an

opening statement that introduces the word "telepathy". The

document has a defensive quality that doesn't fool me for a

second and if all of the scanned documents are read it will

be seen how much information about the form of hypnosis

they use has become record. This is their intent.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/meaning.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/tele2.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/tele1.html

 

When it comes to actually getting any of you to read

anything I have this to say. "You can only lead the horse

to the water".

 

Expand the telepathy statement to the limits of what we

know is in that realm of discriptors of mental activity. 1.

Jungian Collective. 2. Morphogenic/morphogenetic fields 3.

The hundreth monkey theory.

 

Ever hear the term "Dreamakers" in reference to Shaman?

 

Clearly all of you enjoy making fun of my experience and of

the information I try to bring. Consider this. What if the

knowledge I bring is true, factual yet unknown and my

experience is every bit what I claim it is? The longer you

deny and work to dismiss my words, the more you contribute

to death and take from understanding. The promise seen in

the eyes of a child or young person who only dreams of

finding happiness to equal the what the love of a parent

has given them, extingushed, because you can't know how

mind control works, can't look at history, can't love then

think about life.

 

Understanding, tolerance, respect, friendship and love are

what Native Americans are trying to teach us.

 

Christopher A. Brown

 

Really look at this page,

argus1@earthlink.nethttp://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/

 

argus1@earthlink.net

-------------------------

(66 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Dark Shadow - 07:37am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#145 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Telepathy? Let me understand this: First you claim, ALL

children are hypnotized, now you claim, not ALL children

are hypnotized. Aren't you contradicting yourself? If

telepathy is used in this "mind control", how far does it

travel? And, why have the Native American Indian Medicine

people been chosen? By whom?

 

FACTS ARE NEEDED, FACTS, FACTS! Not this tripe!

Christopher, get help, seriously. Your mind control is out

of control. End of communication. You don't answer my

question, my time is too valuable to keep asking the same

thing. *ZAP* (Oh no, another hit, now I'm mind controlled.

The Dark Shadow is no more.)

-------------------------

ekle - 08:00am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#146 of 210)

 

but you still know everything, oder? Shadow

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 08:06am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#147 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle, no I don't (*ZAP*, DS falls off the chair, mind

control is being used). But, I was 7 once. So, how did I

get hypnotized? Or, how did you get hypnotized? HOW???? I

know, Jehovah Witnesses knocking on my door are really

Native American Indian Medicine people. There, mystery

solved!

-------------------------

ekle - 08:15am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#148 of 210)

 

I thought "only the Shadow knows" knows all,

 

what does the Shadow know?

 

Ah, you are the one hyping us, I was never 7, I am only 6.

Cant get me!

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 08:50am Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#149 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle:

 

I know some things, not all! And, yes, they can get you,

and they will, just ask Christopher!

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:31pm Aug 26, 1999 MDT (#150 of

210)

 

What Dark Shadow experiences is because she was hypnotized

as a child and was told something like this;

 

"You will never be able to know what we are doing to you

and if anyone ever tries to tell you what we are doing you

make fun of them and tell everyone they are crazy. If you

do this we will know you are one of us and we will help

you, otherwise you will be all alone and we might hurt

you."

 

How else could a rational adult be aware of what happened

at Columbine high and reject the only historically valid

precident to explain the EXTREME violence. Wake up to what

you're doing!

-------------------------

ekle - 12:58am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#151 of 210)

 

Chris,

 

there are 2 types of people in this world.

 

People that have an idea about our world, i.e. the majority

of the people on this board. We can talk about thing

competently and discuss (the majority)

 

And, people that have no damn idea about anything. This

includes stupid, mentally off, dumb, and just dont give a

damn.

 

You are saying that we are all "under the influence". Ok,

but we arent you also like we supposedly are? Did you get

left out?

 

I believe that this violence is a natural occurance of a

culture going downhill. If what you say is true, why become

violent now, and not at 8 years old. Is it predetermined to

happen later?

 

If we are all "under the influence" why waste your time

with us, because evid. we are long gone. THAT I dont

understand. Why not counter this occurance with ANOTHER

medicine man? That is certainly possible, no?

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:35am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#152 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle:

 

Well, at least I know what's wrong with me. But, how and

when did they get to me? So far, Christopher has not

answered this question. It sounds like he probably got a

triple dose of this hypnotism. He better go back for a

treatment. The very idea, that Native American Medicine

people are compelled to hypnotize little children do sound

far fetched, like from another galaxy. On the other hand,

maybe Christopher is not of this world?

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:40am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#153 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher:

 

"How else could a rational adult be aware of what happened

at Columbine high and reject the only historically valid

precident to explain the EXTREME violence. Wake up to what

you're doing!"

 

You wake up to what you are doing! Sheesh! I am not

hypnotized in any way by Native American Indian Medicine

people. I read my tea leaves last night and they told me:

a) I am not hypnotized; b) Christopher Brown is not from

this planet, he was brought here by little green men from

another galaxy and dropped at the first likely site to

spread such bunk. My tea leaves also told me, that you have

smoked and taken one too many. And, that you are going on a

nice, long vacation, with free room and board. My tea

leaves also said, that I can communicate with these

medicine people and hypnotize them to hypnotize YOU! I will

hypnotize YOU the same way they hypnotized ME!

-------------------------

(57 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

gramps - 09:14am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#154 of 210)

 

Actually, I met a shaman who broke the spell, and then he,

in turn, hypotized me to think that the original hypnosis

was not really what it was, but was instead the "Disney

Mickey Mouse Club".

 

Since then, I have been setting mouse traps all over, in my

cars, in my desk at work, under my bed, inside my

refrigerator, even one in the gas tank of my car. I keep a

handgun around, and anyone foolish enough to wear those

mouse ears around me, well,,,,, look out!

 

But now, I fully understand how this Colubine tragedy

occured.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 09:31am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#155 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Gramps:

 

LOL, hypnotic hysterics! See there! There is an explanation

for everything. Better get a large cat, too. My theory is,

that Jehovah Witnesses are really Native American Indian

Medicine people, going from door to door, hypnotizing

unsuspecting little children. Older children get a message

to go forth and do stuff. Then, they communicate this by

osmosis to Christopher and he shares this revelation with

others. Since you've been de-hypnotized and re-hypnotized,

you are no longer privileged to receive such vital

knowledge. Besides, you are too busy with the mousketeers.

Should I contact Jerry Falwell for you? Seeing, how he

spouts off about Walt Disney and all. He'll help you, I

know. Maybe he can re-hypnotize your re-hypnosis?

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 09:48am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#156 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Gramps:

 

Better watch that handgun bit. Clinton hears about you, you

know what that means? MORE "EFFECTIVE" GUN LAWS! The

criminal society is shaking in their boots, as is. More

laws would really frighten them! But, if I see one of those

mouse ears, I'll pull out my hand gun and help you out.

After all, I'm not in my right mind, I'm hypnotized. Just

ask the authority, Christopher.

-------------------------

ekle - 10:09am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#157 of 210)

 

Bist DU (whoops) Sie ... sind Sie sicher, dass Sie bloß ´ne

alte Frau sind?

 

I dont think so, tea leaves, and such. Man, pretty modern

these days. I, personally, have an anti-hypnosis scanner

here. And, you can get one too, for 99, no wait, 49.95.

 

Sorry Chris, you seem really into this hypnosis thing, and

I had to make that mall joke. Until we see ACTUAL

occurances or actual people, how can we even come close to

taking you seriously?` You are saying things to the same

effect of "My computer is speaking to me in code, or all of

you are actually INSIDE my computer, therefore we can

comunnicate"

 

We need facts, Chris. Names, places, etc. People we can

call, and talk about this.

 

Until then, well, there are still going to be jokes, which

get better everyday.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 11:23am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#158 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle:

 

Let's settle this DU vs. Sie thing. Please, call me DU, ok?

Yeah, ah is an little old lady. I think, it's great. The

stuff I get away with. Keeps me young. None of this sitting

around for me. "Wer rastet, der rostet". or better said: He

who sits back all his life, gets old quick. I was never

able to translate this German saying correctly. Must be the

hypnotism thing.

 

"...have an anti-hypnosis scanner here" Here is the

upgraded one: anti-hypnosis, anti-forcing your religious

beliefs on unsuspecting "true" believers, a zapper for

those knocking on your door, a fax modem for computers to

transmit anti-doctrine zaps, sells for $666.00. Is this

up-to-date or what? I can now honestly say to Christopher,

that I have been de-hypnotized. Also, I'm directing the

rays against the Native American Indian Medicine people to

remove their compulsion to hypnotize little children, who

later in life become neurotic like this individual. I

wonder, if Gramps is interested, what with him trying to

trap those pesty critters.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 11:25am Aug 27, 1999 MDT (#159 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher, when you ramble on and on about such tripe,

you get ridiculed. Sad, but true. You tell, that I'm

hypnotized. I'm telling you, get some help, now, don't

waste another second. Your poor brain can't handle much

more before it explodes. And, if you want to be taken

seriously, then answer my questions. HOW is this hypnosis

transferred. Telepathy? If so, how far? You mentionend eye

contact. Millions of children, hypnotized by eye contact?

All over the world? This is preposterous. Get help. Stop

smoking, inhaling or swallowing those things. It warps your

brain.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 04:26pm Aug 29, 1999 MDT (#160 of

210)

 

Dark Shadow if you would read you could take advantage of

some facts. It appears that you prefer to do nothing while

critizing others for doing something that can bring

information concerning extreme behaviours. Do something

Dark Shadow! Or show me that you've done something because

all I see is words coming from you. They are words meant to

hurt me not help protect children. There are many factions

that use this secret form of hypnosis that is called "The

secret that keeps itself."

 

At least I do something. It is not much, I've proven that a

judge is prejudice and will not follow the civil code of

procedure.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/disqual.html

 

The judge is doing some thing wrong. He is violating laws.

Our laws, your laws Dark Shadow. Don't you care what the

judge is doing or is it just so much easier to put me down

for trying to understand what is wrong with our world?

 

Elke and Dark Shadow here is factual stuff that proves our

government will not follow laws. There is far more fact

supporting what I claim than ANYTHING YOU HAVE PRODUCED TO

SUPPORT YOUR IGNORANCE. Most of what you are saying is

putting me down for bringing knowledge I claim can protect

childrens lives. Law is meant to protect life and lives are

ending senselessly as the government is breaking laws. What

is the matter with you?

 

I've proven that the arrest and booking records of Santa

Barbara from 1876-1879 are so sensitive in their content

that the County of Santa Barbara is willing to violate

Federal supboena laws to avoid honoring subpoenas duces

tecum for the custodian of records.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subdeny.html

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subpena1.html

 

Law is to protect life and government is breaking laws and

kids are dying and all you are capable of is putting down

the guy who is trying to show you which laws are being

broken.

 

As I've said fear, is the only thing that can get people to

behave as you are behaving. What are you afraid of and when

did you learn that fear?

-------------------------

(50 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Christopher A. Brown - 04:29pm Aug 29, 1999 MDT (#161 of

210)

 

All reading this thread should know that the Native

American Medicine people are trying to help us to

understand what has been happening subconsciously in our

society.

 

MANY ANCIENT FACTIONS USE THIS SECRET FORM OF HYPNOSIS.

NATIVE AMERICAN MEDICINE PEOPLE ARE SOME OF THE VERY BEST

PEOPLE. RESPECT THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE SAVING US FROM

OURSELVES AND OUR IGNORANT FEAR.

-------------------------

Christopher S. Heller - 09:37pm Aug 29, 1999 MDT (#162 of

210)

 

Mr. Brown community access is a wonderful thing and so I

suppose is access to a computer. Perhaps though, things

would be a good deal better if you TAKE YOUR MEDS!

-------------------------

ekle - 02:30am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#163 of 210)

 

Alright, Chris,

 

if this is true, as you say, and you are the one which is

THE man who is bringing this to light,

 

why are you not dead? Thats what the big boys do with

people that spread the truth, they have a "heart attack".

 

Sad, but true.

 

I am just asking....

-------------------------

ekle - 02:35am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#164 of 210)

 

Ohhhhhhhhh,

 

I have broken down the barriers, thank you oh GREAT SHADOW.

 

Thank you Du, one more hole in my belt. I will not stop

until the Sie word is banished in the next

Rechschreibungsreform. Should be next year, if all goes

well.

 

Oh, thank you, thank you. I thank you.

 

Sorry, got a little carried away there. I just need society

to take care of me, since I have had bad experiences in

Germany. Its Germany´s fault. I just need a whoopin.

 

As far as being a old lady, and being hip... just dont get

any more piercings than you already have. i am hoping that

they are just in your ears. :)

-------------------------

ekle - 02:48am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#165 of 210)

 

Shadow,

 

he, guck´mal bei dieser Links die er beigefügt hat.

 

Er hat viel nachgewiesen, und viel Arbeit eingesteckt. ich

weiß. es ist schwer zu glauben, aber wann man das selber

nachweisen kann....

 

da sind die Fakten, und Zahlen, ich habe auf Deutsch

geschrieben, so dass er nicht verstehen kann, und sagt guck

mal, Ekle glaubt. Noch nicht, und wahrscheinlich nicht,

aber die andere sollte auch nicht mitkriegen was ich gesagt

habe.

 

Chris, we want to know exactly how its down, who does what,

how, what movements, and then what happens. This is want we

want to know.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:01am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#166 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Christopher:

 

You are skirting my question: HOW DOES THE HYPNOSIS REACH

THE LITTLE CHILDREN??? If we can find this out, THEN we can

effectively break the chain. Why don't you answer this

vital question, instead of all these words. That is all I

have asked from you: HOW DOES THE HYPNOSIS REACH ALL THE

LITTLE CHILDREN ON THIS PLANET???????? Do you have concrete

proof instead of empty words??????? I repeat: HOW DOES THE

HYPNOSIS REACH THE LITTLE CHILDREN????????? HOW, WHEN, WHY?

It's apparent it has reached you, double dose, no doubt.

Christopher, if you don't want to get laughed at, answer

this vital question, instead of writing a book about the

effects. Seems to me, this hypnosis problem must be

stopped, but first, one needs to know: HOW DOES IT REACH

THE LITTLE CHILDREN????????? Facts, Christopher, facts are

needed from you. You supply facts, you get taken seriously.

Otherwise, consider that the Dark Shadow is hypnotized and

knows not, what he/she does. And, don't forget to take your

medication.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 07:08am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#167 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Du, Ekle:

 

I've read Christopher's stuff sometime ago. No doubt, some

of it appears valid. But facts are still needed. If we

know, how this hypnosis reaches the little children, then

there is a slim chance that it could be stopped. However, I

find it almost impossible to remotely believe, that Native

American Indian Medicine people are capable of hypnotizing

little children all over the world. There are millions of

little children, and just how many medicine people are

there? And how do they do it? There MUST BE A WAY for the

hypnosis to reach the millions of little children. This

question has not yet been answered by Christopher.

 

Also, dann, auf in den Kampf mit dieser Geschichte. Hehehe,

die Rechtschreibereform ist auch so ein Blödsinn!!!! *sigh*

LOL

-------------------------

gramps - 10:27am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#168 of 210)

 

Dark,

 

"HOW DOES THE HYPNOSIS REACH THE LITTLE CHILDREN??"

 

used to be Big Bird, now it's Barney.

-------------------------

ekle - 10:35am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#169 of 210)

 

uhhhhh. I got a new question...

 

"HOW DOES THE HYPNOSIS REACH THE LITTLE CHILDREN??"

 

And another thing, I thought by reading the homepage, the

Medicine Men are the good guys, and you went to court with

one.

 

but, now I hear they are the bad guys. I am lost, but I

think a medicine man came by last night, that may explain

it. (I live in Germany though)

 

Damn they are good

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 11:39am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#170 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle:

 

"but, now I hear they are the bad guys. I am lost, but I

think a medicine man came by last night, that may explain

it. (I live in Germany though)"

 

Aww! Come on, they were disgused as Jehovah Witnesses,

that's why you didn't know for sure. Besides, you're too

old by now, past the age of 7. But still: "HOW DOES THE

HYPNOSIS REACH THE LITTLE CHILDREN??"

-------------------------

(40 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Dark Shadow - 11:43am Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#171 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

"used to be Big Bird, now it's Barney"

 

Dang. More dangerous TV programs for little children to

watch. Isn't Barney a homo? No, no, it's Teletubby? I

better ask the all-knowing Jerry Falwell. Maybe he knows

how the little children get hypnotized????

-------------------------

gramps - 12:00pm Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#172 of 210)

 

Can't talk to Jerry about this. he was BADLY hypnotized

when he was a mere 18 months; he's been under the control

ever since.

 

On the other hand, Billy Clinton has rejected any efforts

to sumbliminally communicate other than than the Playboy he

stumbled across as a toddler.....

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 12:39pm Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#173 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

AHA! You have Native American Indian Medicine people

knowledge. What about Pat Robertson? *worried brow*

 

Billy Boy didn't inhale. *LOL* And the moon is made from

Swiss cheese (so my one brother told me, when I was 3 and I

believed!). Maybe he hypnotized me? *eyes go into back of

head*

-------------------------

Christopher S. Heller - 02:44pm Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#174 of

210)

 

Big Bird and Barney? I bet Bert and Ernie are in on it too

and you know what everyone says about THEM.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 09:52pm Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#175 of

210)

 

The hypnosis reachs the little children through adults that

are acting unconsciously with hypnotic techniques that are

exclusive to the subconscious mind. This is done at;

daycares, schools, churches, or any other place an adult

might be alone with a child for 5 minutes.

 

One more time; NOT ALL OF THE CHILDREN ARE INDUCTED.

 

There are many factions globally. Ther are very few Indians

in Germany so one of the European factions is doing the

hypnotizing there.

 

"Original instructions" that are invoked later in life by

conditions that match the conditions described in the

instructions. Conscious reinforcement of the desired

manipulation of the individuals psychology can be applied

by the people surrounding the individual.

 

In the case of Columbine IT WAS NOT NATIVE AMERICAN

MEDICINE PEOPLE who tranced the killers. The killers were

instructed to "think, feel and know" certain things about

themselves and others that over time pushed them to the

edge. The old animal mind is where the instructions reside.

This is the place where our oral instincts, sexuality and

agression reside in our subconscious minds. As children,

instruction that creates patterns that are lived daily,

causes a slow but eventually drastic alteration of

psychology.

 

ANY WHO CONTINUE TO SPEW DENIAL HAVE BEEN HYPNOTIZED BY ONE

OF THE FACTIONS OF SECRECY TO DENY IN THESE CONDITIONS AND

SHOULD REFRAIN FROM OBSTRUCTING THE GREATER MEANING OF FREE

SPEECH AS IT IS USED TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE THAT CAN PROTECT

LIFE.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:03pm Aug 30, 1999 MDT (#176 of

210)

 

Elke I've paid a price or made a sacrafice that is more or

less recognized by some of the factions.

 

Also I have no desire to harm them. None of them. I

understand them and the fact that they CANNOT even know

what they are doing. If we can know, then we can be

watchful, we can create treatments that will help the ones

effected by this knowledge as well as those who carry and

use the knowledge.

 

Native American Medicine people are respected (or feared)

by these factions because of the very deep, natural

knowledge they have of the subconscious mind. The Native

Americans have told the world of ancient secret hypnotists

that it is time for the secrecy to end because if it

doesn't end, the world will end from it and know one will

know why until it is too late.

 

Unconditional love. Protecting children, the future. This

is what the Medicine people are about. They have been hurt

by the U.S. government and now they too are unconscious

with their knowledge, but they made me conscious so I could

share the truth with you.

-------------------------

ekle - 02:51am Aug 31, 1999 MDT (#177 of 210)

 

It was created in by Native American Medicine people with

an ancient, deeply compelling form of hypnosis induced on

children under 7 years that can control them to extremes

through....

 

you say here that the medicine men did this to them, later

you say they are the bad guys, I am confused.

 

As to say we all have been hypnotized, it is called doubt,

BIG TIME doubt. Thats all, after all, if we said that to

you, would you be doubtful too?

 

you know you would...

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 06:52am Aug 31, 1999 MDT (#178 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Ekle:

 

You're not confused. You've been hypnotized by: "Ther are

very few Indians in Germany so one of the European factions

is doing the hypnotizing there." The question here is now:

WHO ARE THESE EUROPEAN FACTIONS?

 

"The hypnosis reachs the little children through adults

that are acting unconsciously with hypnotic techniques that

are exclusive to the subconscious mind. This is done at;

daycares, schools, churches, or any other place an adult

might be alone with a child for 5 minutes." ????????? But

not all children are inducted??? Hey, there is hope for us

yet. Now I'm wondering how many other adults are being

"made me conscious so I could share the truth with you."

Ekle, it could be YOU!!!!

 

Well, I gotta go to work now (I think, I don't know). Yes,

there is doubt. Lots of it.

-------------------------

gramps - 09:13am Aug 31, 1999 MDT (#179 of 210)

 

"ANY WHO CONTINUE TO SPEW DENIAL HAVE BEEN HYPNOTIZED BY

ONE OF THE FACTIONS OF SECRECY TO DENY IN THESE CONDITIONS

AND SHOULD REFRAIN FROM OBSTRUCTING THE GREATER MEANING OF

FREE SPEECH AS IT IS USED TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE THAT CAN

PROTECT LIFE. "

 

Yet, ONLY Christopher Brown has knowledge of this global,

world-wide conspiracy? Chris, if you have knowledge of this

as a world wide conspiracy, who do you know that agrees

with you? How do you collect this information? Have you

been talking to an "insider", a Medicine man who "has

connections"?

 

Dark Shadow - 02:50pm Aug 31, 1999 MDT (#180 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Gramps:

 

"Chris, are you one of these guys who drives a bus around

with a huge sign on it that says "PSYCHOLOGY IS PIOSONING

OUR CHILDREN"?"

 

Calm down now. First he said: ALL children, then he said

NOT ALL children. Then he said, hypnosis since the

crusaders, then he said, only Native American Indian

Medicine people are compelled to do this, now there are

European Factions, then he said, only he was made aware of

this whole, horrible occurrence. I finally got some sort of

answer, how these children (NOT ALL, mind you) are being

hypnotized. But still, this answer is not good enough! Just

how many millions of "compelled hypnotists" all over the

world does it take to hypnotize millions of children?

Unless, of course, their parents, not knowing that they

have been hypnotized themselves, subscontiously (sp?)

hypnotize their own children. But, how do these parents

then know, which child to hypnotize and which not to

hypnotize? And, he said 7 year old children, then he said,

3-4 year old children.

 

I think, I'm confused! *Shrieks, pulls hair out*

-------------------------

Christopher S. Heller - 04:58pm Aug 31, 1999 MDT (#181 of

210)

 

I think I believe Mr. Brown after all it just occurred to

me that Jimmy Hoffa got hypnotized to put on a bunch of

make-up and call himself Tammy Faye Baker; that's how he

disappeared.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 08:13pm Sep 1, 1999 MDT (#182 of

210)

 

Actually Dark Shadow said it. It is possible that now, with

some factions, what was once an area utilized only by the

shaman, has become a compulsive activity af parents. Not

actually organized but enough of a trauma of a sustained

period to create, in effect, a deep trance basis.

 

Once the Deep trance Basis exists it can be exploited by

the ancient secret factions who have the subconscious

programs intact and organized into powerful tools of h

ypnosis with motor control sophistications of the eyes and

facial muscles to cause a psychological switching of the

subconscious.

 

Darwin lost a manuscript and it was found in 1995, It is

called Expressions and it is his final analysis of the

subconscious communications that occur between animals as

related to observable, dynamic uses of; eyes, mouth, facial

muscle and body posture, to adequatley outline a very

complex and powerful realm of communication.

 

Haven't you seen Mashall Silvers hypnosis performances at

the Stratosphere in Vegas? Even if its it rigged it real.

 

I learned about how important love is. Read what a man

named Arthur Maslow has to say about love and how important

it is to the subconscious mind. To fully show our love for

our children we have to work to protect their futures.

Since the futures of all of the children our intertwined in

a collective future, we should work very hard to understand

anything that might threaten or protect our children with

our adult minds. Flames and arrows won't work here.

 

Are you with me o' Dark one?

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 08:26pm Sep 1, 1999 MDT (#183 of

210)

 

Dark Shadow I must point out that you are working very hard

to confuse what I am saying. Considering the nature of our

conversation;

 

MIND CONTROL.

 

You are saying......

 

I DON"T THINK SO.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 08:33pm Sep 1, 1999 MDT (#184 of

210)

 

Dark Shadow & Elke I must point out that you are working

very hard to confuse what I am saying. Considering the

nature of our conversation;

 

MIND CONTROL.

 

You are saying......

 

I DON"T THINK SO.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 09:21pm Sep 1, 1999 MDT (#185 of

210)

 

And you are saying it over and over, not much different

from what I've just done, while I am bringing information.

Facts. Not the ones you want. You want total proof, now.

Instant gratification sounding very compulsive. Facts that

need to be understood even if they are obscure. They come

from our courts and our courts are all we have.

 

To be constructive you need to build on something. I have

provided an extensive site on the fundamental truths of a

part of human history supported by human history and you

won't talk about that either.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/

 

You won't talk about the exlusive photos of the local

Native peoples sacred Winter Solstice shrines documented in

the photos on the website. A solar alignment instrument

called the grandmother shrine and the sunrise through a

hole in the back of a distant cave.

-------------------------

ekle - 01:29am Sep 2, 1999 MDT (#186 of 210)

 

Comments, anyone, anyone?

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 06:35am Sep 2, 1999 MDT (#187 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Facts, RIGHT NOW, would be good. WHO ELSE GOT DE-HYPNOTIZED

TO COLLABORATE WHAT I'M READING?????????

 

How come you DID NOT TELL, THAT PARENTS HYPNOTIZE THEIR OWN

CHILDREN. This is BUNK!

 

Christopher, I do not believe, that you are the one and

ONLY ONE ON THIS WHOLE PLANET THAT KNOWS THESE "FACTS".

Take your medication and STOP LISTENING TO YOUR VOICES!!!!!

I know, I have. I'm signing off this computer and am

traveling to EVERY NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATION TO

TALK TO THE MEDICINE PEOPLE. Maybe they can help you!

-------------------------

ekle - 08:18am Sep 2, 1999 MDT (#188 of 210)

 

just be back before dark

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 10:18am Sep 3, 1999 MDT (#189 of

210)

 

I have figured out what Dark Shadow has been trying to

clarify by asking "HOW DO THEY HYPNOTIZE ALL THE CHILDREN?"

 

In one of my earlier posts I posted, "All Native American

children are hypnotically inducted". Later Dark Shadow

turned it into, "All children are inducted."

 

Hence the creation of chaotic confusion detracting from the

available time, space, peace of mind, continuity of

thought, exchange of thought, motives, use of thought,

innovation, resource, etc., ACTING TO LIMIT OUR

UNDERSTANDING of the ancient methods of interacting with

that part of all of us, 86%, that controls us in subtle and

invisible ways.

 

The subconscious, the place where UNCONDITIONAL LOVE is

known. The conscious creates conditions.

 

I venture into the realm of Socratic stucture of exchange.

Another thread talks about "conflict resolution".

 

Why is confict resolution good?

 

Not just any reason, the best reason. The greatest reason.

-------------------------

(21 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

 

 

And since I continue to deny this as a possibility, then,

by DEFINITION, I have been "hypnotized"?

 

Chris, are you one of these guys who drives a bus around

with a huge sign on it that says "PSYCHOLOGY IS PIOSONING

OUR CHILDREN"?

 

Just looking for some sort of connection.

-------------------------

(31 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Dark Shadow - 10:53am Sep 3, 1999 MDT (#190 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Mmmh. You wrote: All children, not just Native American

Indian children.

 

I still think, that you need to really, really look at this

insanity claim you're making. Ask yourself, why lawyers

don't even touch it. Don't forget to take your medication.

And, no, I'm not hypnotized, contrary to your assertion,

that I am. And, since I'm not a Native American Indian

child, then your statement, that I was hypnotized, and your

statement that only Native American Indian children are

hypnotized, contradict each other.

 

And, you still did not answer my questions. Well, enough

said. End of my posting on this.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:22pm Sep 3, 1999 MDT (#191 of

210)

 

Dark Shadow asked what factions are in Europe?

 

The oldest and most wildly spread are Wicca. The oral

historys of the Greeks, what is left reside with them. I

know this because a man who is sure he is Pan was sent to

me so I could see how completely he was programmed.

Unfortunately the persecution the people of Wicca have know

makes them so afraid he can't know what has been done to

him either. What is interesting is that he really can

understand because he knows alot about mind control. If you

think I sound strange, you should hear what Pan has to say

about where he thinks he comes from. However he and I have

effectively helped someone, with our amatuer skills of

hypnosis, to overcome a deadly addiction. Druids are still

there. They have changed in some ways. I know little about

them. I can speculate that from the Stonehenge structure

they were brilliant in using the subconscious to calculate

mathematics. Merlin was a Druid and Arther was

conditionally programmed to become conscious with all that

he had learned from Merlin in a trance when he pulled the

sword from the stone.

 

There are other, secret societies that I could mention and

I have but I won't because I know how the need to be secret

is with them. It hurts with fear/pain when they hear their

name.

 

I know they are human and that love helps them evolve too.

What is happening is healing not hurting.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:32pm Sep 3, 1999 MDT (#192 of

210)

 

How about it? Who can stomach a tad of Socratic exchange.

I'd like to make a point about "conflict resolution".

 

Why is confict resolution good?

 

Not just any reason, the best reason. The greatest reason.

 

Where has Clayton gone. He is very rational and can

definitly see how this works. MU might go for it. Elke

could do it but she'd have to stop thinking about how to

undermine my point hypnotic programming and start thinking

about what a couple of teen agers could have learned about

life that would have made them not drill holes in their

brothers and sisters.

-------------------------

Christopher S. Heller - 11:58am Sep 5, 1999 MDT (#193 of

210)

 

Just go away.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 09:48pm Sep 5, 1999 MDT (#194 of

210)

 

So it might be true that no one here will communicate to

form agreement that can be used to protect children with

knowledge.

 

How do we justify our existance if we don't protect

children and life in general. All here seem educated, so

there is knowledge. Why are none recognizing the past? We

are humans, our past contains all that is human. Could we

be ashamed of it? Afraid of it? WHY because it contains

knowledge of another realm and that realm has equally

infinite amounts of good and bad?

 

The Native American Medicine people know how to deal with

that. Think about love then live. That is all it takes to

tip the balance is the conscious focus on love. Love has

such influence on our subconscious that we will always

dwell in the good if we are thinking about unconditional

love and how it can protect us and all that lives.

 

The young people that are suffering from violent

compulsions need to have a trusted voice speak to their

troubled, tormented unconscious and explain the beauty of

life that is lived for love. Unconditional love for living

things and protecting the future of our children.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:01am Sep 6, 1999 MDT (#195 of

210)

 

Mr. Heller, I detect that what I am saying makes you have a

sick feeling. It is called an "internal conflict". I will

try to outline it for you as I percieve you experienceing

it when confronted by someone such as myself who is trying

to get you to accept that a childhood hypnotic encounter as

a child, with ancient hypnotists can control your life to

extremes.

 

INTERNAL (subconscious mental) CONFLICT INVOKED WHEN I

PRESENT THE INFORMATION CONCERNING HYPNOSIS OF ANCIENTS.

 

PART ONE; Patterned reaction to the information. "That

stuff. (see PART TWO) Yes! Life, beauty, I see it. No! I

can't see it! No! If I show I see it, I accept it, my

people will turn on me. I will be alone. I can't be alone.

No! Turn away deny if I don't, the dark thoughts will

control me and I will become more afraid. No! Show them you

don't like them, make them go away."

 

PART TWO; Evolutionary program (instinct) conflicting with

PART ONE. "Beautiful young people with lives as important

as mine were destroyed and our goverment allowed it. (see

PART ONE) I sould say something to protect myself and

others. (see PART ONE) I can see that the violence is

unprecedented in history. I should protect what is most

beautiful in the passing of time that I know. I know enough

about history to know how much is not known. (see PART ONE)

I need to live my human dream, to protect my children so I

should protect life and speak out. (see PART ONE)"

 

The sacred evolutionary program uses love as a motivating

force. Love is felt via the limbic system subconscious

overide of nervous system input. So what I am saying "just

makes you sick." Why does PART ONE dominate over PART TWO?

 

The use of fear within hypnosis is devastatingly exploitive

of the evolutionary program.

 

Let me say that making you sick is not my intention. My

intention is to find minds out there that can use

information of human nature and a respect/love for human

society, to effect change in society.

 

Of course the ancient ones with the knowledge of the

subconscious realm are traditionally trapped either by the

secrecy or by the fear of persecution caused within the

campaign of secrecy, so the ancient ones can only do one of

two things. Severe scary stuff to be noticed or deny

anything is happening.

 

PARADOX, Break it. Think about love then live!

-------------------------

(15 following messages)

-------------------------

 

 

Christopher S. Heller - 01:21pm Sep 6, 1999 MDT (#196 of

210)

 

Sorry guy, I'm not gonna bite. I'm through with this topic

as are many others. Good luck in your search for someone

debate this strange business with you.

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 09:17pm Sep 6, 1999 MDT (#197 of

210)

 

As far as I can tell all of the others are gone. That is

the way the program goes. If those denying can't make the

one speaking go way, they leave. At any rate, I do

appreciate the "luck".

 

On with the "strange business"

 

Why is confict resolution good?

 

Not just any reason, the best reason. The

greatest reason.

 

Conflict resolution is good because it protects love and

life. Simple, rational and Socratic.

 

I know it is strange, so very strange. Perhap our inability

to deal with these "strange" human ways of thinking is why

children are so easy led to this extreme violence in

society that thinks of itself as "civilized".

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:24pm Sep 8, 1999 MDT (#198 of

210)

 

It is evident that the group who was programmed to confuse

and demean my efforts to create recognition for some

unpleasant aspects of our human past has figured out that

they were helping to keep this thread near the top. So now

they are gone. Compassionate caring people looking for

entertaining conversation having nothing to do with this

strange busisness of protecting children from the unknown.

 

Hypnosis is natural and a part of every day communications.

When we seek to impress upon someone our feeling and

understanding we engage automatically in forms of mild

hypnosis.

 

Those of us that are educated even somewhat in the areas of

shamnism will recall the tales of witch doctors shaking

their rattles, making faces, chanting. What are they doing?

We have heard of the gods of Greek mythology and the depth

of meaning of knowing that the people of Greece believed in

the existance of those beings. This has got to pose a

mystery to the educated and inquistive mind. How did those

people believe those things?

 

The variety of modern American beliefs as to the reasons

for the violence at Columbine are present in discussion.

And it is true I'm sure that the reasons put forth for the

extreme violence are all valid to degree that we should all

be capable of qualifying. The detrimentals mentioned have

been around for twenty years. Thsi violence is new.

 

I read a great many words spoken on the different lines of

discussion available. How many have actually done something

to uncover a reason for the pattern that goes beyond

Columbine to the other schools forming a pattern? What

about the dates;

 

3/24/98 Jonesboro Arkansas

 

5/21/98 Springfield, Oregon

 

4/20/99 Columbine, Littelton CO.

 

5/21/99 Heritage, Georgia

 

5/21/99 San Marcos High in Santa Barbara, gun reported, a

few blocks away.

 

7/21/99 Murder and decapitation of Joie Armstrong in

Yosemite, a friends niece.

 

The solar events, the ancient new year index on the 21,22

of the month.

 

If any one were to log the events in the news as I have and

look at behaviours in time it is easy to see. Then to say

you've done something go to anyone who should know what the

"evil eye" was and ask them what it was. Ask an

anthropologist about oral histories kept with hypnosis. Ask

an authority on literature, books, libraries about what was

in the books that were burned and why so many court case

files are missing from Salem and the Inquisitions.

 

OUR CIRCADIAN RHYTHYM IS BEING EXPLOITED WITHIN HYPNOTIC

STATES AND THESE BEHAVIOURS, CULTIVATED FOR YEARS BY

UNCONSCIOUS, ANCIENT HYPNOTISTS ARE BEING CREATED SO THAT

WE CAN SEE WHAT IS POSSIBLE.

 

Medicine people are trying to help us to understand how

vulnerable we are to this missing knowledge. It has been

going on for years and we never knew why and it will

continue, worsening, until we understand it and make it

stop. When we can make it stop we can use it to protect

love and life in away that can make our greatest and most

beautiful dreams come true.

 

Either we are too deep in denial and cannot know our selves

in this way and we destroy our world in our ignorant,

compulsive, ignorant fit, or we use the knowledge our world

still posseses, and use it fearlessly, to understand how

people are being influenced to develop detection treatment

methods.

 

This is not to dispense of teaching solid meaningful values

to children of all ages, in fact I heartily encourage much

more of that in our society. Church is good. If anyone was

able to talk about what the really is doing to our minds we

could see why we need an activity that fulfills the role

religion attempts to still fill.

 

My understanding of an ancient form of hypnosis doesn't

rationally make me a target for critisism. The knowledge I

bring is denied because those denying it are programmmed to

do so. It is not their fault just as what has happened to

me is not my fault, or the young people killed in the

schools are not at fault. It is our fault, all of us,

-------------------------

Christopher A. Brown - 11:44pm Sep 8, 1999 MDT (#199 of

210)

 

It is our fault, all of us, for being afraid of the deep

subconscious mind. Respect yes. Fear nothing that cannot be

rationally defined as fearful.

-------------------------

MostlyUnknown - 12:27am Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#200 of 210)

 

Compassionate caring people looking for entertaining

conversation having nothing to do with this strange

busisness of protecting children from the unknown.

 

Hey, buddy, there is no reason to use my name in vein.

 

And yes, I have programmed them to eat SPAM. (Specially

Prepared Assorted Meats)

 

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

I will eat SPAM and eggs every morning.

 

Ever had SPAM on a stick roasted over an open fire after

eating lots of hullicinogenic mushrooms? It's like ghetto

hot dogs.

-------------------------

Dark Shadow - 09:06am Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#201 of 210)

Only the shadow knows

 

Mostly:

 

Christopher said, ALL children, then he said, ONLY NATIVE

AMERICAN CHILDREN, then he said, I was hypnotized, then he

came across with this European Faction. Well, we are all

entitled to our fantasies. If you like SPAM, you should eat

it at lunch, too! What do you know, you've been hypnotized!

 

-------------------------

(9 following messages)

-------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 04:39pm Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#202 of 366) Mostly, You do not have to be licensed to practice law in order to write articles on the law that courts use. You don't even have to have graduated from law school. If a law student does really well in even their first year of law school, they are recruited to write for the school's law review. If the student chooses to so write, and is published in the school's law review, it is quite possible that a court will later use the article to make a point in arriving at its decision in a case. Of course, you have to have a law degree to argue before the court, but that's not always how the court learns of these articles. Judges have law clerks that do legal research for them, and oftentimes these clerks turn up such articles. A judge is free to refer to such articles regardless of whether the attorneys on either side of the case have brought them up. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 05:07pm Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#203 of 366) Chris, RE: "I Christopher A. Brown Declare under the penalty of the laws of purjury of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct." Not enforceable without a signature, and not the "best evidence" without an original signature. How can we believe you? ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 05:16pm Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#204 of 366) Chris, RE: "I've proven that a judge is prejudice and will not follow the civil code of procedure." Actually, it's the Civil Code that sets out the laws we are to follow. (The Criminal Code does as well.) The Code of Civil Procedure sets out the laws by which the courts operate, such as the rules for filing motions, etc. No biggie, but if you're going to decide not follow something, better know what you're not following, right? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 05:33pm Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#205 of 366) Chris, Alright, I went to law school, so I can deal with a little socratic dialogue, but I'm not at all convinced. A book I read in college did have me suspicious about subliminal levels of thought transference through TV. What did you mean when you said, "They come from our courts and our courts are all we have"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 05:56pm Sep 9, 1999 MDT (#206 of 366) Let's see ... we have several methods of subliminal messaging. One way is to throw a picture into the film that is not conciously percieved. Movie theatres got into trouble for doing that. They would throw in frames with pictures of popcorn and sure enough people would get up and buy popcorn. Department/grocery stores have experimented with backwards masking. Putting things like "If you shoplift you will get caught" into their music. Apparantly with good results. You can buy a tape recorder to do that at radio shack. People try to quit smoking and stuff by using backwards masking teqniques. I wouldn't doubt the government puts things in tv shows like "don't do drugs" "be partriotic" "china is satan" "oil is God" etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 05:44pm Sep 10, 1999 MDT (#207 of 366) Thanks for the info, Mostly. I figured the technology was out there. What's to stop its use if there's no awareness of it being in use? Maybe we shouldn't write Chris off so quickly. Every hear of the Save a Patriot movement. They have a "Save a Patriot" web site with some pretty interesting information about the feds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:34pm Sep 10, 1999 MDT (#208 of 366) MU, I think of you as mostly, not unknown. Dark Sadow Yea its true. I did it all. Good diet! Lucy, The thought of law students writing stuff that judges and lawyes use is scary but I've heard that. Yep, declaration won't hold up. It's a gesture. You want signatures there are a number of them on my web page http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/ When the judge wouldn't follow the C.C.P. (170.6) in a motion to disqualify and I had proven his prejudice in the pleading and he ignored it then used the 10 day rule, called the motion untimely and denied it. Later he allowed the denial of 2 subpoena duces tecum upon the legal custodian of public records with their records and wouldn't call a willing defendant to the stand when requested by plaintiff that alleges that matters of life and death, relating to proper function of justice, are elements of the case. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:11pm Sep 10, 1999 MDT (#209 of 366) What I probably meant by "They come from our courts and that's all that we have." is controversial methods of treatments in medicine or psychology. I'm trying to find the post it is in to make sure. What MU describes is definitly a part of our daily dose of subconscious experience and it subtly, over time, controls to a degree what we think. Is there any feed back on my web page. I would like to know how the flow of information is, generally. I know "Todays Legal Trail" is Chaos and it gets updated soon but how about impressions on the rest? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:11am Sep 12, 1999 MDT (#210 of 366) What I probably meant,maybe clearer yet, by "They come from our courts and that's all that we have." is controversial methods of treatments in medicine or psychology COME FROM THE COURTS and that is all we have for determination of what is right and needed. The final discriminitory authority. People are destroying themselves in a myriad of ways and they don't want to. They don't want to take the drugs the psychologists are handing out, they don't wnt to sit around talking to a shrink but if they could just sit down and be told to listen and absorb what they needed to heal, they would do it. The problem is nobody is offering that, those people have no where to go. They're good people, they've got a problem. Not because they wanted one but because they let a pattern of compulsion run their life. It goes further with anger, rage and fear or hate and that is what we might talk about reversing in the subconscious mind. Is it ethical to totally change another person? Should we have the authority to even answer that question. If it is done to protect love and life change is good no matter what it is. What is authority, the greatest authority. In the aforementioned it would be an intention supporting love as the purpose of life. Would that be okay with God? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (156 following messages)

 

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:34am Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#226 of 366) Lucy, You say "God is the ultimate healer.", as a statement it cannot be wrong. "Good point. Analogy is just one of the many tools in the healing process, and is of limited benefit." You didn't get the analogy. With hypnosis the subject doesn't have to think, with the electronic brain wave device, the subject has to "steer" their mind. Since the subject doesn't have to think in the case of hypnosis they can rely on the subconscious perception, (assuming they have made a mental transition) this frees them to look out of the windows, to see what is beautiful in life. If the hypnotist expects results they must determine the spiritualy correct reasons for healing to expect the person to heal. Example; The one person I've worked to hypnotize was done so in a type of intervention. She is 48 years old, killing herself with vodka. She wouldn't go to a hypnotist no matter how much I tried. She eventually all but stopped eating, went from a skinny 125 to 85 pounds in a year then stopped answering the telephone. In desparation I took a book about hypnosis from the shelf and found the voice induction text, worked in a kinetic deepening sequence and printed it out. A friend who is massuer relaxed her with a massage, we sat her up and I started working her subconscious mind to the front of her perceptions. Love that a parent has for a child is the greatest love we can know. I used that in the instructions I gave her to source a powerful motive inside of her and to stop drinking. She was answering the phone and working in the garden as well as her wrecked body could. It almost worked too well when the delerium tremens drove her to a physician who gave her valium. I cannot tell you how I felt when I saw her valiantly trying to work in the garden. I told her while she was in a trance that if "she wanted to heal herself so she could be more help to her son, she would spend a little time working in the garden." Well her desire to help her son was indeed great because she was trying to spend a half a day working in the garden. It appears that the last two years has perhaps precipitated a parkinsons type condition. Now she is becoming addicted to the valium and has taken up a medicinal use of the vodka. I'm going to try to find a physician for her who understands hypnosis. Lucy when you say, "I'm not completely healed from a lot of wounds." It reminds me of the first of two sessions with this woman. She had told me that when she was age four she found sitting in her dead mothers lap, in a parked car in a garage that had been shut with the car engine running. The little girl had opened the inside door to the garage, saw her mother, the car door was open, she went and sat in her mothers lap after moving the empty bottle of scotch. In the first session I dealt with that wound, freed her from the grief so she could percieve healing. I asked her to know her mother loving her, helping her to help her son find happiness. So this is a classic where the person can't get it together to pray, or do anything, but they know deep in their subconscious every reason they need to heal. The conscious mind doesn't really do "unconditional love very well". It spends most of its time coming up with sensitivity to "conditions". With the focus of another person applied to the natural internal motive of the subjects subconscious, a pattern of spiritual gratification is established and followed continously if the right reasons are used. My daughters mother had a boyfriend I didn't approve of after he got rough with her in 1996. In the situation I am in here I have to tell people what I think is happening, that they are programmed in a conspiracy to get the truth of what hypnosis can do into a court room. I told him that he needed to go to a hypnotist, to the county, and that if he didn't it seemed likely from what I had seen, that he would would end up doing something worse later. I told him that the next thing was tha ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:36am Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#227 of 366) I told him that the next thing was that a sexual element would show up in how he would be relating to her and that I wanted to avoid that. He did too. The man didn't at first have any problem with what I was saying, after awhile his denial of being hypnotized was loud. Now I think he knows it is true. I was in court last Friday as support for my daughter a victim/witness. Not rape but very inappropriate touching and somewhat of a reign of terror and language that revolted her. I called the guy and reminded him that I told him that this is where it was going back in '96. He remembered. I explained that his animal mind had been messed with, exploited, and his sexuality had been manipulated and that if he ever wanted to be happy with who he was he needed treatment. A treatment that doesn't exist yet. I asked for and recieved permission to speak to his attorney concerning the possibility that "we, the family of the victim" want the perpetrator to receive treatment so that the behavioral pattern isn't present as a threat. The attorney wanted me to talk to the DA. I know the DA is not even remotely interested in treatments that might provide treatment for extreme behaviours and long term protection for the public and told the lawyer so. I then said to the lawyer, "It would be the defense attorneys role to bargain psychological treatments, for the criminal, that offered public protection in exchange for reduced incarceration." What I said was right thinking and the attorney knew it. He said nothing and instead asked me to call the following day. I agreed and asked him for a good time to call. When I called, today, his secretary answered and sounded like he was right there to take my call. She asked who was calling, left, returned and said that he wasn't available then took a message. The attorney has not called back. I talked to the perpetrator who said his attorney had called and the DA had reduced what had sounded like a year in prison in the beginning, to sixty days with some unspecified treatment after release. When are we going to wake up to what our government (and attorneys) is letting happen to us? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 12:48pm Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#228 of 366) Shadow, they fed him some trippy mushrooms and now he is convinced the Mexicans hypnotized the Brazalians, who in turn hyptnotized the Russians. The Russians hypnotized the Chinese who then hypnotized our government into thinking people are really small bathtubs. Then the bathtubs hypnotized us into thinking we are cheaply made golf balls so we wouldn't catch onto the fact that we are small bathtubs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 01:55pm Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#229 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: Sounds logical to me. Good thing, we're small bathtubs. Otherwise, how'd we get into our bathtub at home? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

(137 following messages)

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:23pm Sep 13, 1999 MDT (#220 of 366) Unknown has presented the "toolbox" of todays psych's including the drugs they love to hand out. Sometimes they work, maybe 20%. Lucy has pointed out that they have to choose to heal. Okay what if they say "heal me". They've chosen and its the psych's turn to make it happen. The devices MU mentioned can present a "model" that the user can control to see their control of their mental states. ANALOGY This is nice but your spending all your time driving and you don't get a chance to look out of the windows. Nitrous Oxide is probably the safest but it is really a small part. The right instructions have to be given to the person. The words that make them want, badly, to heal. Yes, make them want. It is most important and the psychologists/psychiatrists can't seem to see how important it is, or maybe there is some ethical barrier related to the question I asked; "Is it ethical to totally change another person? Should we have the authority to even answer that question." I answered it. To protect love and life yes, but we can't just try, because then you just used someone for what ended up as nothing. Then you owe them for your mistake. You actually have to do it, then it becomes ethical at least in the larger picture. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 12:09am Sep 14, 1999 MDT (#221 of 366) When we were kids we used to get high off the nitrous that is in instant whipped cream canisters. "Wippets" The place that we were buying them from had to stop selling them because some kid took a wippet while he was driving and the wreck killed him. They assumed at least some common sense I am guessing. But what does N2O have to do with anything? You are probably a pretty good candidate for thorazine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dusty Bee - 10:25am Sep 14, 1999 MDT (#222 of 366) Mostly, those two guys from "A Night at the Roxbury" got high like that as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 12:21pm Sep 14, 1999 MDT (#223 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly, Dusty: (LOL) I think, the both of you are hypnotized by Christopher's Native American Indian Medicine people. Mmmmm...what did they do with him? He hasn't been around lately. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dusty Bee - 01:03pm Sep 14, 1999 MDT (#224 of 366) Dark Shadow: Actually I think those two guys from "A Night at the Roxbury" are the ones that have been hypnotized! Maybe that is why they bob their heads in unison like that! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 03:00pm Sep 14, 1999 MDT (#225 of 366) Chris, RE: "Okay what if they say "heal me". They've chosen and its the psych's turn to make it happen. Well, here's where we diverge. While I acknowledge that psychiatrists often prove of tremendous benefit on the road of healing, I do not believe that they are the end all. God is the ultimate healer. Prayer helps. There's never a guarantee of complete healing. There will always be scars from either the wounds of others or the self-inflicted kind, but God is there for us in the healing process as a comfort and a guide. I know I'm not completely healed from a lot of wounds. It's a process, a journey, which will not be complete until I am in heaven. RE: "ANALOGY- This is nice, but you're spending all your time driving and you don't get a chance to look out of the windows." Good point. Analogy is just one of the many tools in the healing process, and is of limited benefit. It's going in and hitting rock bottom, and humbling ourselves that I believe sets the healing process in motion. We have to first acknowledge the need to heal, that we don't have all the answers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (141 following messages)

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:34am Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#226 of 366) Lucy, You say "God is the ultimate healer.", as a statement it cannot be wrong. "Good point. Analogy is just one of the many tools in the healing process, and is of limited benefit." You didn't get the analogy. With hypnosis the subject doesn't have to think, with the electronic brain wave device, the subject has to "steer" their mind. Since the subject doesn't have to think in the case of hypnosis they can rely on the subconscious perception, (assuming they have made a mental transition) this frees them to look out of the windows, to see what is beautiful in life. If the hypnotist expects results they must determine the spiritualy correct reasons for healing to expect the person to heal. Example; The one person I've worked to hypnotize was done so in a type of intervention. She is 48 years old, killing herself with vodka. She wouldn't go to a hypnotist no matter how much I tried. She eventually all but stopped eating, went from a skinny 125 to 85 pounds in a year then stopped answering the telephone. In desparation I took a book about hypnosis from the shelf and found the voice induction text, worked in a kinetic deepening sequence and printed it out. A friend who is massuer relaxed her with a massage, we sat her up and I started working her subconscious mind to the front of her perceptions. Love that a parent has for a child is the greatest love we can know. I used that in the instructions I gave her to source a powerful motive inside of her and to stop drinking. She was answering the phone and working in the garden as well as her wrecked body could. It almost worked too well when the delerium tremens drove her to a physician who gave her valium. I cannot tell you how I felt when I saw her valiantly trying to work in the garden. I told her while she was in a trance that if "she wanted to heal herself so she could be more help to her son, she would spend a little time working in the garden." Well her desire to help her son was indeed great because she was trying to spend a half a day working in the garden. It appears that the last two years has perhaps precipitated a parkinsons type condition. Now she is becoming addicted to the valium and has taken up a medicinal use of the vodka. I'm going to try to find a physician for her who understands hypnosis. Lucy when you say, "I'm not completely healed from a lot of wounds." It reminds me of the first of two sessions with this woman. She had told me that when she was age four she found sitting in her dead mothers lap, in a parked car in a garage that had been shut with the car engine running. The little girl had opened the inside door to the garage, saw her mother, the car door was open, she went and sat in her mothers lap after moving the empty bottle of scotch. In the first session I dealt with that wound, freed her from the grief so she could percieve healing. I asked her to know her mother loving her, helping her to help her son find happiness. So this is a classic where the person can't get it together to pray, or do anything, but they know deep in their subconscious every reason they need to heal. The conscious mind doesn't really do "unconditional love very well". It spends most of its time coming up with sensitivity to "conditions". With the focus of another person applied to the natural internal motive of the subjects subconscious, a pattern of spiritual gratification is established and followed continously if the right reasons are used. My daughters mother had a boyfriend I didn't approve of after he got rough with her in 1996. In the situation I am in here I have to tell people what I think is happening, that they are programmed in a conspiracy to get the truth of what hypnosis can do into a court room. I told him that he needed to go to a hypnotist, to the county, and that if he didn't it seemed likely from what I had seen, that he would would end up doing something worse later. I told him that the next thing was tha ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:36am Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#227 of 366) I told him that the next thing was that a sexual element would show up in how he would be relating to her and that I wanted to avoid that. He did too. The man didn't at first have any problem with what I was saying, after awhile his denial of being hypnotized was loud. Now I think he knows it is true. I was in court last Friday as support for my daughter a victim/witness. Not rape but very inappropriate touching and somewhat of a reign of terror and language that revolted her. I called the guy and reminded him that I told him that this is where it was going back in '96. He remembered. I explained that his animal mind had been messed with, exploited, and his sexuality had been manipulated and that if he ever wanted to be happy with who he was he needed treatment. A treatment that doesn't exist yet. I asked for and recieved permission to speak to his attorney concerning the possibility that "we, the family of the victim" want the perpetrator to receive treatment so that the behavioral pattern isn't present as a threat. The attorney wanted me to talk to the DA. I know the DA is not even remotely interested in treatments that might provide treatment for extreme behaviours and long term protection for the public and told the lawyer so. I then said to the lawyer, "It would be the defense attorneys role to bargain psychological treatments, for the criminal, that offered public protection in exchange for reduced incarceration." What I said was right thinking and the attorney knew it. He said nothing and instead asked me to call the following day. I agreed and asked him for a good time to call. When I called, today, his secretary answered and sounded like he was right there to take my call. She asked who was calling, left, returned and said that he wasn't available then took a message. The attorney has not called back. I talked to the perpetrator who said his attorney had called and the DA had reduced what had sounded like a year in prison in the beginning, to sixty days with some unspecified treatment after release. When are we going to wake up to what our government (and attorneys) is letting happen to us? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 12:48pm Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#228 of 366) Shadow, they fed him some trippy mushrooms and now he is convinced the Mexicans hypnotized the Brazalians, who in turn hyptnotized the Russians. The Russians hypnotized the Chinese who then hypnotized our government into thinking people are really small bathtubs. Then the bathtubs hypnotized us into thinking we are cheaply made golf balls so we wouldn't catch onto the fact that we are small bathtubs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 01:55pm Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#229 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: Sounds logical to me. Good thing, we're small bathtubs. Otherwise, how'd we get into our bathtub at home? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(137 following messages)

 

 

Lucy Schlachter - 03:37pm Sep 15, 1999 MDT (#230 of 366) Chris, RE: "Lucy when you say, "I'm not completely healed from a lot of wounds." It reminds me of the first of two sessions with this woman." I appreciate the help you tried to give your friend, but she and I don't seem to have very much at all in common. I'm quite functional, hold a good job, and am generally happy. It's only when I focused on wounds of the past that I become saddened, and I think that's pretty natural. I don't think anyone is completely healed until they are with their Father in heaven. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 12:56am Sep 16, 1999 MDT (#231 of 366) Mostly, and YOU talk about ME saying wierd stuff. Whoa, that one was out there. But, contrary to my (really my friend&laqno;s) comment awhile back, YOURS did make >SOME< sense. Somehow grammatically ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 03:16pm Sep 16, 1999 MDT (#232 of 366) Shadow provided all the proof that I need. If we were cheaply made golf balls we would float in the bathtub. But a small bathtub would fit into a large bathtub. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lucy Schlachter - 06:09pm Sep 16, 1999 MDT (#233 of 366) Proof of what? Do you verify sources? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ekle - 03:14am Sep 17, 1999 MDT (#234 of 366) Mostly call the golf ball company, and I will call the bath tub company. THEN, we will get the proof we need. Are you making some kind of analogy here, I hope so... ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 03:57pm Sep 17, 1999 MDT (#235 of 366) "Girl Trap" June 7, 1999 Newsweek magazine, page 13. Our fundamental instinctual programs that serve to create relationships are breaking down (being broken down) when 4,5, and 6 year olds derive entertainment from playing a game called "Girl Trap". Can we unify in a purpose of survival and evolution any longer as rational adults? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 04:11pm Sep 17, 1999 MDT (#236 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain Mostly "Girl Trap" call the golf ball company, and I will call the bath tub company. June 7, 1999 Newsweek magazine, page 13. Our fundamental instinctual programs that serve to create relationships are breaking down (being broken down) when 4,5, and 6 year olds derive entertainment from playing a game called "Girl Trap". Are you making some kind of analogy here, I hope so... Can we unify in a purpose of survival and evolution any longer as rational adults? THEN, we will get the proof we need. .............. Actually, I find mixing the posts together like this to be sort of an art form, you know, "existentalist" ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 05:02pm Sep 17, 1999 MDT (#237 of 366) The golf ball company denies ANY government involvement. Isn't this usually a sign that the government is involved? I started thinking I was a cheaply made golf ball just the other day... But I had to remind myself, I was a small bathtub. Even then, I am double-secret hypnotized into thinking that in the first place! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:11pm Sep 17, 1999 MDT (#238 of 366) Yes. Double secret hypnotized. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:35am Sep 18, 1999 MDT (#239 of 366) Did anyone notice what happened in Fort Worth? Even if it went unnoticed here on this thread I believe from what I'm reading that church leaders are beginning to see that religion has been targeted. Y2K is about behaviour and there is the design sabotage to hardware and software. When it all clocks out, where do you think we are going to be O'wise and witty ones? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 08:10pm Sep 18, 1999 MDT (#240 of 366) I'm not sure that I would say that religion has been targeted. It's just that the two most likely groups to drive a schitzophrenic completely bonkers happens to be southern baptists and the government. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 04:56pm Sep 19, 1999 MDT (#241 of 366) It seems that with the consideration of the fact that many of the schools hit with this extreme brand of violence were Christian middle schools then we have to consider what happened in Granada hills where Jewish people were targeted, it is safe to say that religion has been targeted. Conciously government is areligious by adherence to constitutional tenants, subconsciously it is religious as it is compromised of people who are religious. The government is being challenged to live by its laws and to ignore its religious basis, so far it has failed and children die. Of course religion was for the purose of protecting the "flock" from the Pagan. Since Pagans cannot do these things with the mind there is no need for religion, right? That is what is shown by the lack of attendance at churches as people forget why they need to attend church. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 09:45am May 14, 1999 MDT (#242 of 366) "Double secret hypnotized." "Double dog secret hypnotized, I say ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(124 following messages)

 

 

Dark Shadow - 08:08am Sep 20, 1999 MDT (#243 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen MostlyUnknown - 08:10pm Sep 18, 1999 MDT (#240 of 242) "I'm not sure that I would say that religion has been targeted. It's just that the two most likely groups to drive a schitzophrenic completely bonkers happens to be southern baptists and the government." LOL! Now, Mostly, you are triple-secret hypnotized. But, I thought, first Christopher stated, only Native American children were hypnotized, then he stated, ALL children were hypnotized, then he stated I'm hypnotized, then he stated only Native American children, etc.... In my hypnotized state I believe, that he was hypnotized, de-hypnotized, re-hypnotized, double wammy, de-hypnotized, re-hypnotized, triple wammy. And, those drugs and voices, that are part of his life, can't help much. But, what do I know. I'm like a little child, happy in my hypnotic state. How much are the golf balls????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 08:25am Sep 20, 1999 MDT (#244 of 366) No more turning away ... tra la la la la from the weak and the weary la la la la la la la la laaaa la la la tra la laaa la la la OOops. The gov't hypnotists got me again! Must remember ... hairless ape ... video games ... patriotic duty to serve Satan . UGH they broke in again! Must remember ... .15 c

 

ent golf ball ... serve Clinton . It happened again! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christopher A. Brown - 09:54am Sep 20, 1999 MDT (#245 of 366) Native Americans know that unconditional love is the purpose of life and their Medicine people teach, in a trance, understanding, tolerance, acceptance, respect, friendship and love to their children. Christians understand these things and use them in all of their relationships, particuarly in the teaching of children, it protects them. What it protects them from is what the loving and caring people posting on this thread could help with if they want to protect childrens lives. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dark Shadow - 01:12pm Sep 20, 1999 MDT (#246 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: "Native Americans know that unconditional love is the purpose of life and their Medicine people teach, in a trance, understanding, tolerance, acceptance, respect, friendship and love to their children. Christians understand these things and use them in all of their relationships, particuarly in the teaching of children, it protects them." Do you need a trance to teach this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 10:23pm Sep 21, 1999 MDT (#247 of 366) Golf balls and bathtubs? Well I quess that's better than chamber pots and bits of what one might find floating within. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:18pm Sep 21, 1999 MDT (#248 of 366) Technically a trance is not needed. Without it a great deal of repetition is needed. If a child knows what love is, their subconscious will keep them doing what is needed to protect it even if it means, understanding, tolerance, respect etc.. The difficult things. Conscious teaching of these things with repetition can create impatience that can undo all of the teaching. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 12:22am Sep 22, 1999 MDT (#249 of 366) "Thou shalt be patriotic" "Thou shalt not question" ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 01:20am Sep 22, 1999 MDT (#250 of 366) what the...? whoops sorry.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 07:50pm Sep 22, 1999 MDT (#251 of 366) The causes of the decline of our culture are dynamic. Subconscious orientations of our relational routines have been shifted by the bombardment of conditions that are intended to make profit for someone, as long as no direct harm comes from a childs encounter with the condition, whatever it is, TV, CD. Game, certain subcultures, it has generally been allowed. While this has been going on the tendancy of corporate and American government has been to take over the parental role to increasing degree. Subconsciously, adolescent children percieve their parents as powerless irresponsible wimps for not making the process of societal self determination a reality rather than a farcical charade engaged automatically by another generation that assumed America was a free and responsible nation. A large percentage of parents of young children right now do not possess a clue of how to prepare their children for the future. Without having some idea of what the future holds it is not truly possible. There was a time in our past when the future had an aspect or two that was stable enough to project what tommorrow held, but today, I don't think so. Having experimented enough with concensus of fundamental intent to know that if people that cannot enthusiastically gather around protecting love and life, they also cannot work together to make positive changes in government. Free speech is not empowered in our society. Everyone has it but only those with power are heard. The TV brings Americans their perspective of life and those in control are not interested in sharing truths. Naturally they want more power for greater personal security. The time is here where class divisions are becoming more visable and a segment of third world Americans is established in metropolitan areas. Personal security erodes with the severity of division and the societies ills are very much the ills of its people, power or not. The appeal is simple. Either the values of love and life are sufficient to embrace for the futures of our children, or they are not material enough and we will fail to unify and the decay will continue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(115 following messages)

 

 

MostlyUnknown - 09:40pm Sep 22, 1999 MDT (#252 of 366) Ya, the last time America was unified was during WWII. But then we had Vietnam and many did not believe that it we had a right to be there. We dominated Germany, nuked Japan, and then the gov't decided it was almighty enough to start policing other nations. Every empire falls and I am hoping that America is ready for a hostile invasion because it will happen. Your reference to an unstable future is accurate. It used to be that people would pledge their allegance to a company and work there for life. Anybody who reads current trends will find that this is no longer true. We have a growing number of old people that are not able to retire, live their young lives well, and then end up in poverty. They support not paying taxes so they can "live it up" and they never save a dime. Then at 50 they start thinking about the future. This works out okay in Europe where you retire on the government, but America is a very darwinistic society. Problem is we have the weak bum rushing their schools because guns allow them to retaliate. The criminal justice system is incredibly powerful at catching people, but when suicide is part of the plan it really defeats their system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 09:20am Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#253 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain Actually, the U.S is doing less and less of the dominate kind of world policeman stuff. Look at the Marine corps history, specifically the "Halls of Montezuma and the SHores of Tripoli", where Marines simply went in and killed lots and lots of Pirates or anybody else we didn't like. The Monroe Doctrine, establishing North, Central, and South America as "hands off" to the European powers. These days, we actually look for local or regional support for any actions that occur. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 11:36am Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#254 of 366) I don't know, we nailed Yugoslavia's skyscrapers with bombs. That is pretty ballsy. It would be like if somebody sat in a boat and shot a missle into the Sears Tower. The Iraqi's got used to us bombing them. I sat and watched them drive their cars around pretending like a building next to them didn't just melt. Could be that we just have more firepower now... ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 01:45pm Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#255 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain The U.S. planes also were joined by whatever NATO planes, English, Canadian, etc. Hardly purely a U.S. show. Yes, we stomped the Iraq's, they WERE the fouth largest army in the world (didn't last) and only the U.S. could do what we did. Advice to countries like Iraq, Somalia, Yugoslavia.... Don't piss off the U.S.. What does it take? I think all these actions have one thing in common. "Be nice to you neighbors" seems to be the lesson. Don't bother telling me it was the oil, or the trees, or anything else. The message is abundantly clear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 02:09pm Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#256 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly, Gramps: You both are hypnotized. What did you do with Christopher???? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 03:05pm Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#257 of 366) It was oil, and a show of power. Yugoslavia was just a show of power. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 03:25pm Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#258 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! Iraq = oil Yugo = stabilized E.Europe for Nato expansion before Russia attempts expansion again ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 07:49pm Sep 23, 1999 MDT (#259 of 366) Oh yeah, I forgot "spreading democracy" even if forcibly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 09:09am Sep 24, 1999 MDT (#260 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! MU, the Eastern European countries WANT democracy. Yugo seems perhaps the exception, which is OK for them, so long as they remain peacefully within their borders and do NOT expell refugees of whatever on Serb ethnic group is on their current hate list into the other emerging deomcracies. Of course if totaltarinism and nationalism is left free to take over in small countries that want to annex other countries to become larger countries, your generation could be

 

come the third one to be bled over in Europe. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christopher A. Brown - 07:24pm Sep 24, 1999 MDT (#261 of 366) A friend of mine called me up about 10 months ago and said; "Hey! I was watching the news a few minutes ago and there was a US military official speaking from a Macedonian government building. In the background was the Macedonian official seal. It looked just like the Masonic symbol. Then I realized it was different." My friends father was a Mason. The Natives have informed me that an aspect of Masonry branched from the consciously benevolent order that lives by rules of conduct that keeps them working for good, to an unconscious, compulsive secret dominance, with hypnosis, that could do anything and not know it until it was all over. That was in about 1850. Here in America the Native Americans worked constantly to keep the ancient order at least focused on its positive, conscious purposes by making big tracks with their hypnotic influence in the populace of rural America. In Europe there was no such element. As the secrecy escalated so did the tyrannical control in the Eastern block. Now we have a religious war thinly diguised as several other things. Considering that nearly every president of this Nation has been a Mason, we need this ancient order to be revived and understand what has happened because of the compulsion to secrecy that the oral histories of the crusader enabled. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 10:18pm Sep 26, 1999 MDT (#262 of 366) Our mental capacity is 86% unconscious. We know that sexuality and agression are aspects of the subconscious. The circadian rythym is in the unconscious and the extreme violence that has fallen on the dates between the 20th and the 24th of the month has created a pattern. Curious how psychologists won't notice a fairly obvious pattern. Y2k is about behaviour first and computer failures second. This should be clear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:17pm Sep 27, 1999 MDT (#263 of 366) A VISITOR FROM THE PAST. By; Thelan Paulk 1980? I had a dream the other night, I didn't understand. A figure walking throught the mist, with flintlock in his hand. His clothes were torn and dirty, as he stood there by the bed. He took off his three cornered hat, and speaking low he said: "We fought a revolution, to secure our liberty. We wrote the constitution as a shield from tyranny. For future generations, this legacy we gave. In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave." "The freedom we secured for you we hoped you would always keep. But tyrants labored endlessly while your parents were asleep. Your freedom gone, your courage lost, you're no more than a slave. In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave." "You buy permits to travel, and permits to own a gun, permits to start a business, or to build a place for one. On a land that you believe you own you pay a yearly rent. Although you have no voice in choosing how the money is spent." "Your children must attend a school that doesn't educate. Your Christian values can't be taught according to the state. You read about the current news, in a regulated press. You pay a tax you do not owe to please the IRS." "Your money is no longer made of silver or of gold. You traded in your wealth for paper so your life can be controlled. You pay for crimes that make our Nation turn from God in shame. You've taken Satans number as you've traded in your name." "You've given government control to those who do you harm, so they can padlock churches and steal the family farm, and keep our country deep in debt, put men of God in jail, harass your fellow contryment, while corrupted courts prevail." "your public servants don't uphold the oath they've sworn. Your daughters visit doctors so their children won't be born. Your leaders ship artillery and guns to foreign shores, and send your sons to slaughter fighting other peoples wars." "Can you regain the freedom for which we fought and died? Or don't you have the courage to stand with faith and pride? Are there no more values for which you'll fight to save? Or do you wish you children live in fear and be a slave?" "Sons of the republic , arise and take a stand! Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land! Preserve our Great Republic and each God Given Right! and pray to God, to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!" As I awoke he vanished, in the mist from which he came. His words were true, we are not free, we have ourselves to blame. For even now as tyrants trample each God Given Right. We only watch and tremble, too afraid to stand and fight." If he stood by your bedside in a dream, while you were asleep. and wonders what remains of our Rights he fought to keep. What we be your answer if he called out from the grave? "IS THIS STILL THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 07:36am Sep 28, 1999 MDT (#264 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Nice poem! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:35pm Sep 28, 1999 MDT (#265 of 366) With art the barriers both internal and external can relax. Bringing meaning to freedom of expression and freedom of speech is our challenge because there are many good things that want to be said, want to be heard and they need a place. Our mediums of communication support exploitation of us not our evolution. We need the truth to evolve. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ panda paws - 04:07am Sep 29, 1999 MDT (#266 of 366) Yeah, really nice poem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 01:57am Oct 1, 1999 MDT (#267 of 366) So are we so different? We like the same poem. We see the same truths in it. Why the fear in using our freedom to protect our freedom, to protect the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 06:44am Oct 1, 1999 MDT (#268 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen "Christopher A. Brown - 01:57am Oct 1, 1999 MDT (#267 of 267) So are we so different? We like the same poem. We see the same truths in it. Why the fear in using our freedom to protect our freedom, to protect the future." There is no fear in using our freedom to protect our freedom. But, Christopher, if you did not hit people over the head with these sledge hammer tactics they might listen to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 11:49am Oct 1, 1999 MDT (#269 of 366) Ya, but people would forget you are "so different" if you dropped the indian medicine people stuff. My guess is that you aspire to be different or you wouldn't bring it up in the first place. But still, I prefer the indian stuff to the religious freaks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 05:03pm Oct 2, 1999 MDT (#270 of 366) Actually the brutal truth is effective at getting attention. Shock value! information as to the degree we can be controlled. Once the person (if they don't automatically forget) is over the shock and if the information continues, the accumulated information of their lives begins to correlate with my brutal exposure and they begin to realize the truth. That we are missing knowledge about an aspect of human life that is fundamental, proportionatly, to the greatest aspect of our lives. At any given moment we are at least 86% unconscious and over our lives it is what is in our unconscious that means the most to us. MU is correct. To aspire to be different is to work to gain attention. The Indian "stuff" is of natural origin. It is clinical in the way I express it and that is the way it can serve us best. People are afraid of their potential image when working against government with the freedoms they inherited. By my estimates 0.0001% of the population is willing to take a vocal stand on issues that potentially mix religion and politics as the issue I present does. No Fear! Think about love then live. Think about the lives of your children (love), and live to make them as good as they can be, and their childrens childrens childrens children. It is comprehensive and empowers evolution. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 01:08am Oct 4, 1999 MDT (#271 of 366) The violence that has been done by young people may have been caused by exploiting what they know of the destruction of nature. When I encounter environmental attitudes from positions of power that allow continued destruction of the beauty of natural living habitat, I realize that when young people see power literally unable to protect that beauty, they become hopeless. I mean really hopeless. Think about the power. All that we consume in material and intellectual materials of the media. The government is clearly a part of the act and the young ones see it. What happens in the news has become surreal since the Simpson trial. The courts have been used to act out an expectation that floats in the unconscious program that is an alternative to Armageddon. The end time type prophesies surround the bizzare behaviours we see with expectation of immense fear. So fearful it can't be described so why bother talking about it. In essence its the same old fear of the PAGAN TRANCE and the depth of control that can be excersised with post hypnotic control. The behaviours described in the end time prophesies are all within the subconscious memory of the "quickening", 1000 years ago, the last effort to demonstrate the TRANCE. Kids have been programmed and the Natives are telling us that its happening and they want it to stop and that we should work in all ways to protect children. Effective screening by an independant group of undercover, teenage psychologists could serve as an active intervention tactic followed by treatment to the subconscious tailored to the individual. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 03:59pm Oct 5, 1999 MDT (#272 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! Demetrius Underwood, exposed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 04:35pm Oct 5, 1999 MDT (#273 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain Wow. A "Effective screening by an independant group of undercover, teenage psychologists " sound scarier than all the rest of it. Also, if the "quickening" was 1000 years ago, I go no furher. from what I know of history, that was called the "Dark Ages" for good reason. Not for me. I'll keep trying to be a modern man, come hell or highwater.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:22pm Oct 5, 1999 MDT (#274 of 366) It is unfortunate that older generations do not have confidence in the younger. It is true there are some very young lost ones, but I've seen more older people who cannot deal with the truth of their humanity than I care to remember. The young ones have an open mind and compassion and they understand their peers. Their peers don't respect anyone else so "teenage psychologists" that are really trained to see violent potentials are our greatest asset if we are going to try and defuse potential violence in schools. Be certain that the clinical methods that are available are totally useless for locating the people who have the most devastating potentials. Even if they could find them they couldn't do any more than drug them which for the most part will create a zombie in order to reduce the compulsions rising from the deep subconscious to the conscious. It is worth engaging unorthodox methods to find and treat people who have been programmed with subconscious disorders. Saving lives, learning how to make life better, understanding how to make life best. We are human. It is our perogative to care about our fellow human being and realize that we share our world. To make it better for someone else, internally, can make it better for us externally. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 01:06am Oct 7, 1999 MDT (#275 of 366) Gramps sez' Also, if the "quickening" was 1000 years ago, I go no furher. from what I know of history, that was called the "Dark Ages" for good reason. Not for me. I'll keep trying to be a modern man, come hell or highwater. Were they called dark because they were bad or because someone thought they were bad and now we can't see what happened? From what I've learned some of the dark ages could have been quite good. The truthsayer was in use in the courtrooms of Europe. Great circular citys of the Mediteranian had a street lined up with the Winter Solstice sunrise with a massive obelisck at the center and the bearers of oral histories stood on the Ley line to set their biological clock, the circadian rythym, and the leaders took their oath while in a trance. I am certain that it was rare that an oath of office was broken, whereas today with "modern men" there is no way to know if anyone follows their oath of office. Judging by what goes on in politics ALL oaths, ALL offices are violating oaths all the time. I've procured copys of the oaths of office for the County Supervisors and some judges and it seems as though the language has been devalued so that what we are looking at is a pointless ceremony. What is sad is that the line drawings that were around 40 years ago depicting the positioning of the obelisck are now missing from the librarys. Books about the greek myths are missing too. Something sick is making the secret ones hide everything that reminds them of the subconscious and how it played a role in ancient society. So hell or high water might actually turn out to be global warming and poisoned water as we compulsively destroy our precious, irreplacable environments in uncontrolled fits of consumption while our children kill each other. Remember the poem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 06:51am Oct 7, 1999 MDT (#276 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain Well, Chris, I admit I'm on your side with that one. THey have changed the oath's so as to not embarrass themselves, and they define "Not walking the talk". Even Doctors, who I have always admired, have altered the Hypocratic Oath so it no longer says that they will not consider the monetary rewards, and that they will not perform abortions. So now it say they will heal you at the established insurance company rate. As to the rest of your descriotpion of the "Dark ages", I'm intriged(sp). It DOES sound as if there were very good things abouot that period. What has come to light is how the Christians "stamped out" pagan ritual, which may have included much that was good and worthy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 08:53am Oct 7, 1999 MDT (#277 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Gramps: What has come to light is how the Christians "stamped out" pagan ritual, which may have included much that was good and worthy. Of course, they did. It interfered with their particular brand of the truth! Brain washing was and is most prized by them. Right, Christopher? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 02:08pm Oct 8, 1999 MDT (#278 of 366) Yes brainwashing, subconscious programming. Not for evil but to compensate for the fear they felt of their own compulsive desires as they were manipulated by the Pagans with their ancient trance. To escape fear. Of course now the ignorance of the dominance that our subconscious has over us threatens to destroy life. Without awareness or acceptance it will become evil. Think about love then live. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:59am Oct 10, 1999 MDT (#279 of 366) Awareness and acceptance of actual prescence of both good and evil in the subconscious is the basis for seeing how the invokation of the good is so important. So.......Think about love. (A conscious preocupation with a fundamentally essential aspect of our evolutionary program) , then live. (use of the value of the evolutionary program to guide life.) Teaching it to people empowers them. This is what the Natives are showing us. Ever read what Arther H. Maslow has to say about what love does for the "actualization" of a human being? How desparately did Dylan Klebold need to understand the preceding paragraph about five years ago? What difference could knowing that information make to someone like him? Would they seek treatment? What if thre was away to get that information into their deep unconscious, should we do it? Or should we wait until they kill somebody? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 10:30pm Oct 10, 1999 MDT (#280 of 366) What entity has taken responsibility to locate and defuse those young people that are left that have been given instructions by unconscious hypnotist, who may lash out at innocents on another day? We know they are out their. On a daily basis their psychology is getting them closer and closer to being homicidal. Who can get their attention, get them to show the potential that they have before they go off? Who can treat them and return part of the promise of life to them? No one. Why? Because we have been deprived of knowledge by a secret society that uses the knowledge to control government. Their is no real plot for it beyond control that is perceived as "warding off" fear. There is no blame, those that are doing it don't even have appreciable awareness off what they are doing. Knowing what you just read can enable you to make a decision to DEMAND that your government develop an understanding of the subconscious mind for three very important reasons. 1. Detecting and punishing abuses 2. Provide treatments for abuses 3. Purify itself (government) of the unconscious control that makes it irrational and self serving. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 01:58am Oct 11, 1999 MDT (#281 of 366) if they control the govt, how can we tell the govt what to do if they ARE CONTROLLED. I think i am missing sth here. Also, i happened to watch THE DOORS again this week. Pretty strange, the medicine man that Jum always saw. It has a new meaning now to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 12:07pm Oct 11, 1999 MDT (#282 of 366) The control of government does complicate the issue of making government follow our laws. We have a vote and if we have to we should use it to force our government to either serve us or show its true color. A number of times the voters of the State of California have made ther wishes know through their vote and the State has denied the people. If need be this issue should go to the vote of the people. Considering that the corporate media is controlled by the same forces, there may be no other way to inform the people of the violations of law conducted by our government. It is shameful that we cannot unify to a degree that makes it possible to simply, with a single voice, demand that government follow these laws, but this is the condition that the forces controlling government and industry has been working to create. Winston Churchill told a Harvard audience in 1943, "To control what men think offers better prizes than taking away other peoples lands." The consolodation of media power has achieved this goal and it is demonstrated by our inability to gather in recognition of the pattern of violence created to show us what the government does not want us to know. Our inability to share an understanding of subconscious compulsion and how it can be used with hypnosis and memory control to make people do things underlines the effectiveness of the removal of knowledge from our society concerning this ancient form of hypnosis. The sixties were created by Native American Medicine people. The Doors, The grateful Dead, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, and nearly all of the rest were influenced by the ancient hypnosis. Their lifestyle and message had understones of who had influenced them. Jim Morrison, in his creativity, his sexuality, self destructivness, all compulsions, shows us with the autobiographical aspect of the movie how he was impacted emotionally by his remembered contact with Native Americans as well as how deeply he was effected in his life overall. Woodstock was a concentrated effort to bring a generation of young people together in recognition of human naturalness. With the Native Americans unconscious, their manipulations lack the comprehensive, coherent aspects that we needed to actually gather effectively and use our freedoms effectively. The Natives refer to the people they have influenced as "The New Tribe" and they are hoping that the truth can be understood and appreciated by them so the future can be protected. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 07:06am Oct 12, 1999 MDT (#283 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: The control of government does complicate the issue of making government follow our laws. We have a vote and if we have to we should use it to force our government to either serve us or show its true color. How do we know, what laws the government should follow. I mean, since we were all hypnotized as little children. We don't know. The sixties were created by Native American Medicine people. The Doors, The grateful Dead, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, and nearly all of the rest were influenced by the ancient hypnosis. Sounds a little far fetched. Got any REAL PROOF ON THAT? Not just words? Tangible proof, visible proof???????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ekle - 09:38am Oct 12, 1999 MDT (#284 of 366) if they were hypnotized , what about the punk rock and alternitive music of today, Cobain, Kiss, Ramones, Chilli Peppers, and all the rap. they had to be under some influence too, and I dont think it is medicine people that do the trick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Christopher A. Brown - 05:09pm Oct 12, 1999 MDT (#285 of 366) DS. Has very perceptively pointed at the empty statement I made. I remember doing so and telling myself to add the conclusion, then I forgot and it is better this way. The "complication of control" of government makes it so we must agree upon our fundamental purposes to unify and use our sacred freedoms to protect the future by knowing the truth about our government and ourselves. Serve us or show its true colors. We, if we are human beings following our nature to evolve, despite any hypnosis, CAN know what is right/evolutionary/lawful and little children know too. I did. When I used the word created I used the wrong word. Coordinated was the wotrd I should have used. The ancient unconscious hypnotists try to do good things, all of them, and their individual efforts manifest in the sub-cultural affectation that the icon utilized in their image. Dark or foreboding (Black Sabbath) or elated with respect for beauty (Moody Blues) or exalting in self destructive power (Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Cream, Blue Cheer, Mountain) or lost in eclectic intelligence (Zappa, Procol Harem). The childhood contact sets the theme and the later vision quests that derive the aristic expression expand the theme into the final expression. PROOF! Not that again? No although I could introduce you to a few people who were actually around when Woodstock was being concieved of and they would tell you that Native Americans were always, mysteriously present. There were some contacts between a group know as "The Hog Farmers", the CIA, Ken Kesey and the author of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (I forget his name) and many Native Americans back in the late sixties at a place called Harbin Hot Springs in California. In the world of unconscious hypnotists interacting, the hypnotist with the deepest resolve ends up the one that the rest listen too although none are conscious of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 06:34am Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#286 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: PROOF! Not that again? No although I could introduce you to a few people who were actually around when Woodstock was being concieved of and they would tell you that Native Americans were always, mysteriously present. Of course, that again! What do you have as proof to back up those statements you are making? THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. No proof, no belief on my part, simple, right? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 08:57am Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#287 of 366) I want you to bring a medicine man on this forum to explain himself. in detail, of why we are so messed up today, and also who they "talk" to people. Better yet, I want one to talk to me. He doesnt need to know me, I guess, but I am waiting. I will keep everyone up to date on my findings, if i get too crazy, call my mom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Justin Case - 12:30pm Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#288 of 366) This is all so Twilight Zone I don't know whether to laugh or call for the Loony Ward on Wheels. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 01:56pm Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#289 of 366) The government has been systematically removing the proof along with effective removal of the meaning of our rights to free speech. Believe that many young people are dead and that JUSTIFIES suspension of disbelief until an adequate explanation of why the 21st day of the month was the day of action. Fly to Santa Barbara, rent a car and I will take you to people who can substantiate the involvement of Natives in the key events of the sixties. elke, The Medicine people are acting on an unconscious program. They cannot talk about what they are doing and niether can anyone else and there are a number of factions doing various things. A massive stigma of fear learned in a trance at childhood keeps them from being able to make the unconscious knowledge conscious. I can talk about what is happening because I agreed to when I was six years old for the purposes of protecting my children. Consider the many mysterious unknowns of our past and why they are so mysterious. Consider that we ARE destroying our vital environment and we can't stop and we don't know why any of it is true, but it is. Justin, there are facts. See my web page, http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/ There is a great deal more to life that we have been allowed to know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 02:19pm Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#290 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: Fly to Santa Barbara, rent a car and I will take you to people who can substantiate the involvement of Natives in the key events of the sixties. If I can't talk to the American Indian Medicine people, what's the use in my spending good money? elke, The Medicine people are acting on an unconscious program. They cannot talk about what they are doing and niether can anyone else and there are a number of factions doing various things. A massive stigma of fear learned in a trance at childhood keeps them from being able to make the unconscious knowledge conscious. LET'S HYPNOTIZE THEM! I can talk about what is happening because I agreed to when I was six years old for the purposes of protecting my children. ? You had children, when you were six? How come, other children did not agree to do the same as you? If they did, where are they and how can we get in touch with them? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 09:25pm Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#291 of 366) DS, I've explained probably 20 times, the Medicine people are not conscious of what they are unconsciously doing. The Medicine people may want us to hypnotize them in order to make them conscious. After 2000 they'll want to stop but our societies inability to accept what it will be forced to understand may tend to keep them unconscious with fear. Children can understand life and the meaning of having children. Santa Barbara County destroyed information that parents could have used to inform themselves of what might be done to the minds of their children if they left them in the care of Natives. The Medicine people I knew took over the parental role in my life but they used hypnosis and memory control to do it. Other children here were asked but they were too afraid to trust and understand. As I was emotionally abandoned by my parents and the natives were my care givers I ended up understanding from them that my people were destroying nature and agreed to let them use my life as a demonstration of the possibilitys. After that they used the memory control to make me forget the agreement. They proceeded to control me for 40 years by the direct post hypnotic and the use of others acting on post hypnotics. In some ways I was lucky in others cursed. The biggest curse is the ridicule that comes back at me when I try to use the demonstration that cost me a life of my choosing to warn people of what is going to happen at 2000. There are a few others but the Medicine people choose me because they felt I would survive, write, write law, speak and try to protect people. After 2000 they will probably become conscious and realize the price they might have paid but I paid instead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 09:38pm Oct 13, 1999 MDT (#292 of 366) Well, I mean, if it was for the environment... At Jan 1, 2000, 0:00 everybody in the world is going to pick up the phone at the same time to check to see if it works. It will bottleneck everything. The phones will be down, I bet, until later in the day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ekle - 01:29am Oct 14, 1999 MDT (#293 of 366) I used to work at a call-center for electronic products.. can you imagine all of the deumb-ass people calling about missing their movies? It was bad enough before, but then?... Mostly, but, you are wrong, it will go by areas, west, mountain, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ekle - 01:30am Oct 14, 1999 MDT (#294 of 366) Chris, what does your wife have to say about all this.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

mark kern - 02:10am Oct 14, 1999 MDT (#295 of 366) The media has paid more attention to it. I understand school violence has declined. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:30am Oct 15, 1999 MDT (#296 of 366) The ex has the instructions "You will never be able to know what we are doing to you." She can't listen to it. We separated in 1993 because I refused to be party to her uses of drugs and alchohol, I became conscious of my past in 1996 Our divorce was a hypnotically timed event to get the district attorney after me for child support so I could see how the system took advantage of the relationships that the Natives compulsively create between the people they control. She was not originally inducted by Natives, the "secret ones" got her started then the natives took over with their knowledge of the sacred and put us togther for our different reasons in the Native plan. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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Christopher A. Brown - 12:41am Oct 15, 1999 MDT (#297 of 366) Are there any lurkers in California who care to write a letter to our elected representatives asking that they support experimental treatment of the subconscious mind for sex offenders using hypnosis augmented with nitrous oxide? The Santa Barbara County Mental Health Department has agreed to ask the State Mental Health for permission to use an experimental treatment. Nitrous is safe and used for dental work on children. Even though the school violence has stopped for now I will not lighten up on this issue. At 2000 there is a good chance many people will need exactly this kind of help. Many of the young people responsible for the 3000 copycat incidents that were triggered by the violence will need this therapy to avoid serious problems later in life. Tell me you'll write and I'll post the addresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 01:42am Oct 15, 1999 MDT (#298 of 366) Well, you have to be careful about impregnating people? Child support was NOT devised by native american indian medicine people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 06:54am Oct 15, 1999 MDT (#299 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher, Christopher: 1996 Our divorce was a hypnotically timed event to get the district attorney after me for child support so I could see how the system took advantage of the relationships that the Natives compulsively create between the people they control. ???? There is always child support, when a divorce happens. If you didn't wanna pay it, should've kept it in the pants. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HYPNOSIS, yeez! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:47am Oct 17, 1999 MDT (#300 of 366) Sex and love are of the subconscious mind. Our old aimal mind. If you knew how totally hypnosis could enhance both you wouldn't say that and niether have anything to do with money. When you are completely controlled in a conspiracy that the court will not acknowledge to the degree where it is violating United States Federal regulation concerning subpoena law and a citizens right to present witness and evidence it is logical that conventional perspective are inadequate to explain any failure to conform to expectation. The important thing is to protect the future, life, and the love it can know. So who can write letters to protect the lives of young people in school? I know you can all write but will you use your skill to protect the lives of human beings? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 09:04pm Oct 18, 1999 MDT (#301 of 366) What about it? You folks serious? Think life is worth using your right to free speech to protect? How about democracy, can you use your right to communicate with elected representatives to protect democracy? Or maybe you really don't care about those young people that had bullets ripping through their bodies, their blood running onto the floor of their school. In too much pain to think about what they were losing while their lives passed before their consciousness as the lights went out. That dream of finding love in life, of knowing the smile of their child, of working and making a life. It probably doesn't matter that their brothers and sisters think of them and cry. Yea, that grief doesn't matter enough to do something besides chat about it. Their parents only invested the product of their lives to make their childrens lives as good as they could, it's not your problem. Maybe it is too much for you to risk to write a letter supporting experimental treatment for the subconscious mind. It doesn't really exist anyway. Shine it on, be safe you are warm and happy. The children don't deserve your support they are all messed up anyway. At this time it may to dangerous and all that I say is just spew anyway. Your nieghbors, the government, the CIA and the crusaders will hunt you down and make you miserable if you support anything I propose. I understand, it's OK. Turn on your TV, something new and exciting will be on to distract you from all this difficult stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Kathy Keener - 10:44pm Oct 18, 1999 MDT (#302 of 366) This from a guy who had to be taken to court to get him to pay for the support of his own child. Please. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 11:25pm Oct 18, 1999 MDT (#303 of 366) Kathy, even looneys can be deadbeats. Ma

 

ybe his wife should've hypnotized him to pay. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dark Shadow - 10:21am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#304 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher, Christopher: Sex and love are of the subconscious mind. Our old aimal mind. If you knew how totally hypnosis could enhance both you wouldn't say that and niether have anything to do with money. If the humans were like animals, the males could just stick it to the females, and then laze off, while the female is raising the off spring, males do not pay child support. Is this what you are getting at? If you want to add to the population explosion, at least be responsible, instead of spreading this tripe. This is a buncha crock with this hypnotism. All because, YOU DID NOT WANT TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT??????????? Should've thought of that, before you got enhanced! Once again, WHERE IS THE PROOF?????????????????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 10:23am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#305 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Kathy Keener - 10:44pm Oct 18, 1999 MDT (#302 of 304) This from a guy who had to be taken to court to get him to pay for the support of his own child. Please. HE CAIN'T HEP IT, HIM'S HYPNOTIZED! And, then he got enhanced. Mmmmhhh, wonder if I could use this lame duck excuse???? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:23am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#306 of 366) I tend to disagree. There are many animals that have a lower divorce rate than humans. Parrots are one example. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Dark Shadow - 10:26am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#307 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: LOL, LOL!!!!! Makes me wonder, though: Are there any parrot lawyers???? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:28am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#308 of 366) I have a pet parrot. It doesn't need a lawyer. I crossed it once and she nearly broke my finger. That's justice! Even the dog knows better than to mess with that bird when it is having a crisis... ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 10:32am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#309 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: Cats tend to be that way, too! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:37am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#310 of 366) Most people don't know how smart birds are though. If I don't give mine enough attention it takes peanuts out of it's dish and throws them at me. She takes verbal commands also. "back in your cage" causes the bird to go back in her cage. "Headie Scratch" causes the bird to drop it's head to be scratched. One day I was watching the bird watching me, and I realized something. It was thinking, which is scary. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 10:40am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#311 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: One day I was watching the bird watching me, and I realized something. It was thinking, which is scary. Probably was a hypnotized stare! You think, the Native American Indian Medicine people hypnotize birds? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:49am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#312 of 366) No, I think this bird is studying to become Hitler the Second in it's next life. Only C. Brown is hypnotized. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 10:51am Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#313 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: LOL!! I gotta go to lunch, and act professional now. I sure hope, I can wash that smirk off of my face. Gotta be serious, and not think of a parrot studying to become Hitler the second in his next life. LOL!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 06:02pm Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#314 of 366) Wow! You folks really have courage. I mean it. Using your real names on the internet. Thats heavy. It's like you have no fear and you care so deeply about life that you are willing to do that. This shows true strength of character. Stepping forward like this to help me protect the lives of young people. Thank you for being there. I knew I could count on you. Love, Christopher A. Brown ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:43pm Oct 19, 1999 MDT (#315 of 366) Didn't I tell you? This IS my real name! The child support gripe lost you popular support. I am guessing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 09:46am Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#316 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: Wow! You folks really have courage. I mean it. Using your real names on the internet. Thats heavy. SURE! It's my REAL NAME. Just ask my parents. So, are you finally paying your child support or did you join the rest of the losers? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gramps - 10:46am Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#317 of 366) "It is best that we don't all think alike: it is the difference of opinion which makes horse races" - Mark Twain Whoa! When Chris is going off on all those groups out to get "us", and includes the CIA, then you ALL realize that aside form the ramblings, that we are dealing with a clinical case here. tread lightly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 01:57pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#318 of 366) Ever hear that song by Nirvana? I think it was called "Lithium" or something. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 02:24pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#319 of 366) Hang on a sec... "BAD BIRDIE" There, that will throw it off. It was just sitting on it's pirch minding it's own business. Hehe. Made the dog laugh. I would tell you my pets names, but I need to protect their identities. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 07:57pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#320 of 366) MU assumes I think that I ever had any support and that now I've lost it because I've mentioned the fact that I cannot pay child support. At best I held a status of "curiosity" to this group although I will acknowledge good questions are a form of support. After presenting valid compilations of inquiry concerning the human past and its many unknowns then I provided to this group the URL to my web page, http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/ with 5 mega bytes of exclusive information; photos of the most sacred places of the spiritual leaders of ancient America; legal/ official documentation, violations by Santa Barbara County of Federal Subpoena laws; a list of the extreme violence and its dates to show that these young people went of on almost the same day of the month repeatedly was posted here linking the violence to the circadian rythym, this group attacks me when they find out I can't pay child support. Examination of the MOTION TO DISQUALIFY on my web page will demonstrate that the courts here are absolutely lawless and unreasonable while colluding with the county to enable local government to continue gross negligence and avoid responsibility. The court has refused to follow state laws and provide me with equal protection of the law, my civil rights have been violated. American people who love freedom should be offended when learning of what is happening here realizing they could be next, or that their children may suffer. At least perceiving the erosion of rights, generally, cannot be tolerated if the rights of the American citizen are to be preserved. Rationally all of the preceding paragraph can be placed after the valid concern of protection for human life that should justify examining and considering any documented explanation for the extent of the violence in the schools and the timing of the incidents. Rationally when all of it is considered any intelligent, compassionate human being SHOULD say something like, "How can I help? I would like to find out why this is happening." That hasn't happened. Instead my misfortune, (and it's worse than I've indicated concerning my son, age 11 who lives with his mother at her parents in a psychologically abusive environment that he is learning), has been used energetically, collectively, in a coordinated fashion by this group in an attempt to hurt me with words. The same group has been dogging my efforts since the beginning. This isn't rational as well as the ignorance of the County of Santa Barbaras violation of federal law and collectively it is an indicator that something is very wrong. The ignorance of the seriousness of the violence and the lack of involvement by the group in discussion centered on developing detection and treatment for young people or others who may be "set" to "go off" and massacre, is irrational, if we are talking about caring and compassionate people who respect life. Why are the people who attack me with words irrational in these critically essential ways for the human who seeks functional, peaceful evolution of their community of humans, attacking me? What have I done wrong? Why are they gathering in a pack to pick and tearing at anything that they might find wrong in what I say? When a person has been hypnotized and no instruction "to remember" has been given to them and they are later told that they were hypnotized, it is normal for them to be aggravated, aggitated, and angry with the information to the point of adamant denial. These are facts recorded in the meager research done into hypnosis in the fifties and the sixties. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 08:02pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#321 of 366) When a person has been instructed to "never be able to know what is being done to them" and "anyone who tries to tell you what we are doing to you, you won't like them, you'll think they are crazy", it adds to the natural repression of awareness of the hypnotic experience recorded in memory exclusive to the subconscious and they aggressively deny that any hypnotic control of anybody without their knowledge is possible. They will talk about anything they can to distract from the focus of conversation if it remains on the extreme potentials of control of the human being by hypnosis when it is begun as a child. The irrational tendancy of the group can only be explained by the previous paragraph. An attempt to deny the preceding paragraph only falls into the explanation and information of the paragraph when the consideration of the mysteries of human history, make massive, the obligation to accept that the subconscious mind can be programmed and when it is, the conscious can't know it. So either you care or you can't, if it involves understanding hypnosis, and you can't show you care, you've been programmed to deny. These are rational conclusions and I operate on a daily basis with them and I have for 3 years finding the results consistent. The next message contains the names and addresses of a few California, elected representatives. Individuals in the group attacking me should look at the letter I sent to Senator Barbara Boxer then think of sending an e-mail or letter supporting experimental treatments for the subconscious mind. Despite the rational conclusions preceding, the individuals will get a horrible, disgusting feeling and be unable to even think of actually communicating support. Try it. You be amazed at how strong the rejection is even though my cognitive process of integrating facts is fundamentally sound when considering the seriousness of the violence and the need for understanding for the prevention of any more extreme acts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 08:04pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#322 of 366) United States Senator Jack O'Connell 228 W. Carrillo Street Santa Barbara CA. 93101 senator.oconnell@sen.ca.gov California State Governor; Gray Davis State Capitol Sacramento CA. 95814 State Assemblywoman Hannah Beth Jackson State Capitol, room 2187 Sacramento CA 95814 Lois Capps US. Congresswoman, 1428 Chapala Street Santa Barbara CA. 93101 loiscapps@mail.house.gov U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer 112 Hart Senate Office BLDG. Washington D.C. 20150-0505 senator@boxer.senate.gov RE; Treatment for sex offenders, violent antisocial behavior and drug addiction.. Dear Senator Boxer, Attached are two denials of subpoena duces tecum upon a custodian of public record. The information gained from the introduction of this information into legal civil action would have created a dramatically increased understanding of the role that the subconscious mind has in crimes. Premature releases of prisoners at the Santa Barbara County jail indicate the degrees of public danger created by ignorance of the subconscious. Many sex offenders, violent antisocial criminals and drug addicts can be treated by the use of hypnosis augmented with nitrous oxide. Nitrous is safe and has been used on children in dental offices for over a decade to facilitate a calm environment for treatment. The recent extreme violence in the Nations schools underlines the deficient understanding of the subconscious mind that psychology uses to understand behavior. By treating dangerous criminals, techniques can be developed to treat the subconscious. When the public becomes aware of the treatment many, young and old, troubled and desperate people who truly desire to be happy and compatible in society will have an option to turn to. Presently they do not. Psychology has a number of powerful drugs that are very questionable in their application in many cases and that is all they have. Psychology does not treat the subconscious directly although it is well known that the subconscious contains 86% of our mental ability. I have asked Santa Barbara County Mental Health to request permission from the California State Department of Health to begin experimental treatments to sex offenders. My daughter was recently molested (S.B. Co. Sup. Crt. Case No. M992970) by her mothers boyfriend, a repeat offender and he has given permission to receive this form of treatment. Also attached are annotated copies of SB468. The notes in the margins outline the travesty and deprivation that the passage of SB468 will be if it is adopted before a complete understanding of the human subconscious mind is attained. Please present a letter to the California Department of Mental Health supporting permission to Santa Barbara County Mental Health to administer experimental treatments as described and communicate amongst your colleagues the need for a more complete understanding of the subconscious before the passage of a bill such as SB468. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 09:06pm Oct 20, 1999 MDT (#323 of 366) FASCINATING! Now pay your child support. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 04:48am Oct 21, 1999 MDT (#324 of 366) Gramps is right. No reason to push somebody. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 06:55am Oct 21, 1999 MDT (#325 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: Ébecause I've mentioned the fact that I cannot pay child support. But itÕs ok to go Òforth and multiplyÓ? You do have a responsibility to the human being YOU BROUGHT INTO THIS WORLD! Individuals in the group attacking me should look at the letter I sent to Senator Barbara Boxer then think of sending an e-mail or letter supporting experimental treatments for the subconscious mind. Did you offer your mind first?????? Or, rather someone elseÕs? Native American Indian Medicine people perhaps? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:07am Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#326 of 366) Mr. Heller dismisses logic by saying it is fascinating and I should pay. Money, money, money no wonder children are doing what they are doing. I flat out don't understand what MU refers to. Now DS has stated something I can respond to. O' dark one my responsibility is to deal with the likes of you who cannot be rational and acknowledge truths of our past and truths of ourselves. And yes I not only offered my mind I suffered a mental demonstration that was so profound it keeps me here soaking up the abuse of this misguided group. Remember, this is a place where childrens lives are to be protected with discussion. Remember that children can understand a great deal more than is accepted by many parents and psychologists. So think of the lurking children that see what the group is doing to one who simply attempts do institute dialog dealing with the detection and treatment of ANY who might do senseless, meaningless violence in a place where peaceful, loving young people gather to learn about their world so they might be better prepared to find happiness in their lives. I would like to pay the child support off and have custody but the courts are too corrupt to follow federal laws and the unimpeded conspiracy has me fighting legal battles instead of working because NO lawyer will use law to protect life. Right now I have about $10.00 to my name, bank accounts included, and I still haven't figured out how to pay the machine shop to press a new bearing on the axle of my 77 toyota so I can be ready to move when a little work happens. So someone explain how they are protecting love and life with what they are doing here. Please be comprehensive to the purpose of this thread! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 06:58am Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#327 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: I would like to pay the child support off and have custody but the courts are too corrupt to follow federal laws and the unimpeded conspiracy has me fighting legal battles instead of working because NO lawyer will use law to protect life. YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT AND THE LAW IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE LAW. All this other stuff is bunk. Sounds to me like you're trying to shirk your obligations by cooking up all sorts of bunk. If you, an adult, can not meet your obligations and set an example for the children of this world, then these children will turn out just like you. NOW, THERE IS A SCARY THOUGHT! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Christopher A. Brown - 11:34am Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#328 of 366) The Dark one lives up to her (is it a female?) moniker by continually ignoring tangible evidence while trying to hurt others. http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/foia.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/grndjury.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/meaning.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/tele1.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/disqual.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/distrans.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/distrust.html Unfortunately the page that has the declaration verifying the arrest and booking records presence in the public records is down so I can't substantiate the existance of the records. DS says;YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT AND THE LAW IS REQUIRED TO ENFORCE THE LAW. Who requires the law to enforce the law? Certainly not DS. As a people we are afraid of our governments so they do what they want and it doesn't include following vital laws. VIOLATIONS OF FEDERAL LAW. Here I prove it. http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subdeny.html http://home.earthlink.net/~argus1/subpena1.html There is no justification for the subpoena denials. Of course I understand that women can be completely controlled by these forms of hypnosis when inducted as children and that is why women were not allowed the vote in America until 1918. So DS has a good excuse for her compulsive irrational statements and position. DS. says; All this other stuff is bunk. Sounds to me like you're trying to shirk your obligations by cooking up all sorts of bunk. If you, an adult, can not meet your obligations and set an example for the children of this world, then these children will turn out just like you. She has no evidence to support her continuous personal put downs of a person who is only trying to get government to be responsible and protect his children, all children. Literally her postings are compulsive, fearful bunk. I am meeting my obligation many times over and setting an example to the children of the world to not fear, to love. Who is shirking what? Is the Dark one an American citizen? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 12:12pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#329 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: The Dark one lives up to her (is it a female?) moniker by continually ignoring tangible evidence while trying to hurt others. YOU ARE HURTING OTHERS! Your children are neglected by you, their father. After all, you did hop in the sack! Tangible evidence???? WHERE? BY WHOM? WHERE ARE THE NATIVE AMERICAN MEDICINE PEOPLE? Oh, I forgot, they're out hypnotizing innocent little children. She has no evidence to support her continuous personal put downs of a person who is only trying to get government to be responsible and protect his children, all children. THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN????? Aren't you the one who is being irresponsible? BTW, you are putting me down. You make this outlandish claim, and THEN YOU FAIL TO HAVE PROOF. It's a miracle to me, that you've not been locked up. Or, did you escape already? So, tell me, is this irresponsible government of ours giving you assistance, i.e. food stamps, welfare checks, etc.? If so, oh High and Mighty one, MY tax dollars are paying for this. Maybe I can convince this irresponsible government of ours to cut all your benefits, so you have to work and so child support can be withheld from your paycheck. Or would that be too much for your hypnotized mind? Literally her postings are compulsive, fearful bunk. I am meeting my obligation many times over and setting an example to the children of the world to not fear, to love. Sure hope that your setting an example to the children of the world to not fear, to love is enough for your very own children. That's where it starts. Not on the Internet with tripe! Unfortunately the page that has the declaration verifying the arrest and booking records presence in the public records is down so I can't substantiate the existance of the records. How unfortunate! Of course I understand that women can be completely controlled by these forms of hypnosis when inducted as children and that is why women were not allowed the vote in America until 1918. Too bad, the reproductive organs were not affected by this! Who is shirking what? Is the Dark one an American citizen? You are shirking your responsibility. How easy it must be to fabricate such yarn, while shirking YOUR responsibility for YOUR CHILDREN! And yes, I'm an American citizen. I have children and I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM, FED THEM, CLOTHED THEM, RAISED THEM AND PAID MY DUES. You claim, you only have $10? But, yet, you can afford the Internet? Did your children eat last night? Or are you so self-hypnotized and arrogant, that THE LAWS, that exist and that the GOVERNMENT ENFORCES, DO NOT APPLY TO YOU? Careful, Christopher, the moon is getting full. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 02:25pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#330 of 366) Oh Dark one. It is good to hear you are a U.S. Citizen because that means you have a responsibility to freedom and to monitor your government. Love, Christopher ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 02:33pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#331 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: Careful, the moon is getting full! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 03:32pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#332 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! Ok, so it's Fri, but this guy is acutally "working" on his conspiracy bs rather than paying child support? Well, I used to work with folks with mental illnesses, but still sad. Hope the kids qualify for SSDI for having a parent with a disability. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 03:34pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#333 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! btw, MU, concerning the tin foil and bright rooms on a totally unrelated thread, the odor does seep through the windows and it's about impossible not to know what's going on. Now I gotta go find me some alcohol. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Dark Shadow - 03:40pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#334 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Bendog: Ok, so it's Fri, but this guy is acutally "working" on his conspiracy bs rather than paying child support? THAT is my problem with him. But...the moon is getting full!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 08:36pm Oct 22, 1999 MDT (#335 of 366) Careful, Christopher, the moon is getting full. Our sky turned deep bright purple last night. It looked like it would taste good. Probably because the pollution index was supposed to be dangerously high. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

mark kern - 08:33pm Oct 28, 1999 MDT (#336 of 366) Policies like 'Zero Tolerance' are causing school violence. Children are people . . . developing people at that, moreso than adults. Zero Tolerance suffocates human behavior to the point a few trying souls break out, and they are sometimes violent . . . their peers and their parents define most of what is their world. The violence creates traumatized people, whose fears are intensified, which inturn stirs a meaner brew of violence, etc. etc. One Freedom is not in the Bill of Rights, freedom from fear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 09:34pm Oct 29, 1999 MDT (#337 of 366) Hitler gained his power through fear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 01:47pm Nov 1, 1999 MDT (#338 of 366) DS and all those unable to see that the government here has violated laws that have cost, indirectly, many innocent lives and ignore the lawlessness. There is no doubt of one thing. THEY ARE GUILTY OF AIDING AND ABBETING CAPITOL CRIMES. (I forgive them because I know they have been indoctrinated by a secret society, that cannot under any conditions, acknowledge the control of the subconscious mind over conscious living. They have an excuse for their ignorance of human history and the violations of law by government.) HOW ABOUT LOGIC: If I cannot, because of the conspracy, follow a few laws that harm no one, (and I shouldn't distract myself from what I am doing if I believe in what I am doing and I claim to respect life) how can any of you be justified in anything but support for what I am doing. I fight the conspiracy so that my children will be free of negligent, irresponsible, opressive government. So that they will have courts that can make fair, just and unbias decisions for the people of the society they are a part of. I fight for the long term well being of my children as well as all other children. If you think there is strength in numbers I will say there is strength in knowledge and not in ignorance no matter how plentiful it may be. So try to help by communicating with our leaders or at least stop what you are doing because the more you do it the worse you are going to feel later. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 02:57pm Nov 1, 1999 MDT (#339 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: THEY ARE GUILTY OF AIDING AND ABBETING CAPITOL CRIMES. What are capitol crimes? . I fight the conspiracy so that my children will be free of negligent, irresponsible, opressive government. So that they will have courts that can make fair, just and unbias decisions for the people of the society they are a part of. I fight for the long term well being of my children as well as all other children. But you pay no child support??? Should'nt the courts enforce that too? For the well being of your children???? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 05:12pm Nov 5, 1999 MDT (#340 of 366) On May 16, 1997 I filed a motion requesting review of the decision to suspend my drivers license for failure to pay child support. In the request for the review I included a statement of my findings of a search of the public records of court case files. Initial evaluations indicated there were up to 1000 court case files missing, all insanity actions. I also informed the judge of a number of frauds targeting me for the previous year and occasionally back 6 years. I explained that from what I had learned as a target of a conspiracy caused by the missing court case files, public safety was at risk, lives were in danger. This was a month or so after Heavens Gate. The judge wouldn't hear "any conspiracy talk" and denied the motion. The district attorney sent investigators to follow me from the court house who ticketed me for driving without a license and my car was towed. I told the investigator in charge "the conspiracy just got bigger." I later used the transcripts to demonstrate to the judge in my civil action his prejudice, to get him to do the proper thing, disqualify himself. He denied his prejudice and then allowed the county of Santa Barbara to deny two subpoena duces tecum for the custodian of public records. The judge allowed the county to violate United States Federal Supoena laws and my equal rights of protection under the law. Children, in violence in public schools, have died because of it. If the courts are corrupt and the people are too afraid of their government to demand that government follow laws then the people should realize that childrens lives free of insane violence, homicide, a capitol crime, is far more important than one of the millions of fathers who cannot pay child support who happens to also be trying very hard to force government to follow laws that protect all children. Particuarly when one of the major reasons so many fathers cannot pay is the corrupt connections between government and the corperate world that have enabled multinational coperations and taken decent honest work from the American family. What if the corruption was so bad that after thousands of people were needlessly killed it enabled the financing and completion of a program called Armageddon? Would my inabilty to pay child support still be worse? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Dark Shadow - 07:03am Nov 8, 1999 MDT (#341 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: On May 16, 1997 I filed a motion requesting review of the decision to suspend my drivers license for failure to pay child support. SO? Start paying. The district attorney sent investigators to follow me from the court house who ticketed me for driving without a license and my car was towed. I told the investigator in charge "the conspiracy just got bigger." Conspiracy? YOU BROKE THE LAW! See, they do uphold the law. Are you upset, 'cause you got caught? Particuarly when one of the major reasons so many fathers cannot pay is the corrupt connections between government and the corperate world that have enabled multinational coperations and taken decent honest work from the American family. Deadbeats, more likely. Have the fun, then run, right? Let the poor woman worry about the kids. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:43pm Nov 12, 1999 MDT (#342 of 366) As decent human beings it is our responsibility to the longest term safety and quality of life of our children that must have priority. For this reason the mental health of the entire community of children must be understood. If the creative and adapting traits we see in happy and adjusted people are to be learned and used in living, we must work to make the authority of our society understand that we CANNOT HUMANLY ACCEPT LESS that this standard and principle of abilty to meet and survive change. Our mental health industry is a fake. Without tangible treatment for the unconscious mind those who are effected in ways that will make massive cognitive distortions in their conscious mind, fueled by cyclic compulsion keyed to their circadian rythym, tormented, will have no where to go. If gov. could be accountable for record keeping then psych. and law enforcement could understand and team up on DETECTION and lives could be saved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 12:38am Nov 13, 1999 MDT (#343 of 366) If you have a concern about the "longest term safety and quality of life of our children that must have priority" then a good way to demonstrate this would to pay the child support of your own kid. Charity begins at home and this is the basis of all good works. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 09:15pm Nov 15, 1999 MDT (#344 of 366) Prevention by information. Saving human lives. If people knew how they could be manipulated by exploitation of fears and desires that starts at childhood they would at least have a fixed point of perspective on their behaviour or perspective that contemplated behaviour/actions might be based on. They might realize they need treatment. If the awareness of the treatment came with knowledge of what is possible when hypnosis is used compulsively on children by ancient hypnotists, those who feel themselves loosing control would have a place to turn and a reason to turn there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dark Shadow - 08:49am Nov 16, 1999 MDT (#345 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: Prevention by information So why did you have kids and then complain that the law is after you, cause you don't pay child support? What does that say for you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:00am Nov 19, 1999 MDT (#346 of 366) Knowing that when children understand something it means the same thing as when anybody else understands. Knowing that a child can understand unconditional love as the purpose of life means you can understand it too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 08:24am Nov 19, 1999 MDT (#347 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: Ever considered running for public office? I'm sure, they can use people like you. You sure do write a lot and say nothing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 10:50am Nov 19, 1999 MDT (#348 of 366) That was pretty rough. hehe I wonder if me and Mr. Brown combined make up even one normal person. Probably not. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 09:29pm Nov 22, 1999 MDT (#349 of 366) It is likely that there will be no normal people until our evolutionary program is purified of all the fear it has absorbed and becomes reoriented in unconditional love that protects the futures of life as a whole. Public office? I don't think so. The evolutionary program is going to take time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 09:18am Nov 23, 1999 MDT (#350 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! There are times I really miss the "rebuking satan" response. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 06:14pm Nov 23, 1999 MDT (#351 of 366) Me too. I wonder where that lady went?

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Christopher A. Brown - 10:44pm Nov 25, 1999 MDT (#352 of 366) You don't need her for that. You guys do just as well if not better. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher S. Heller - 10:10am Nov 26, 1999 MDT (#353 of 366) ya' think? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(13 following messages)

 

 

bendog - 11:07am Nov 29, 1999 MDT (#354 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! Christopher Brown, some scholars state that people in Biblical times attributed insanity to being possessed by demons or the devil, and that Mary Magdeline had schizophrenia, but Jesus cured her by casting out her demons. I hope you are in treatment and looking for a job to pay for your kids to grow up and live their lives. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 04:47pm Nov 29, 1999 MDT (#355 of 366) schitzophrenia is very treatable. The meds are expensive, though. Anybody know the figure on how much it costs yearly to be schitzo? I was thinking at least $10k. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 01:26am Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#356 of 366) Insanity means "unsanctified". Archaric and obsolete perspectives abound. Positive proposals consist of new ideas altruistically presented. I suggest that all of the obsolete can be replaced by saying, "the unconscious mind is the source of all these disorders you refer to with archaic reference." I know exactly the treatment I need and am working to develop it. The development of it will protect my children and all children immensely by providing a cure for; Schizophrenia, drug addiction, sexual disorders, dyslexia (limited) ADD (limited), phobias, violent or agressive and antisocial behaviours, speech impediments, depression, anxiety, memory disorders, learning disorders, homelessness, to name a few. The drugs psychology presently offers are dangerous and toxic. Our subconscious minds "know" what is wrong. All we have to do is speak directly to them with corrective concepts and the human will heal themselves. Psychology knew more 40 years ago about the subconscious than it does now. You guys are lame. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 01:54am Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#357 of 366) Schitzophrenics have large fluid-filled chambers in their brains that "normal" people do not have. It is a medical condition, and the most devastating symptoms of it can be relieved with medication. I suppose next you will tell us that people who had leprosy asked for it? A polar bear knows more about psychology than any of us, but, what is your point? I would prefer to be a human, and not a polar bear. Psychologists spend years trying to tell patients what they read about them the first time they saw them. I wouldn't make a very good psychologist because I am rather blunt and to-the-point. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MostlyUnknown - 02:02am Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#358 of 366) I have a Jewish friend who said this today, (well aproximately) "Haunika is not the same as Santa Claus. Haunika is about people invading a temple. It's about blood flowing in the streets. I don't know about this s*** that people think it is the same as Christmas." --Stoner Jew So we have blood flowing on a cross. Same difference. The old "blood spilled for freedom so we will mak

 

e a holiday of it" bit I suppose. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dark Shadow - 03:00pm Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#359 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Mostly: So we have blood flowing on a cross. Same difference. The old "blood spilled for freedom so we will make a holiday of it" bit I suppose. Supposing, of course, that this is true! Christopher Brown: The moon is getting full! If you are SO concerned about the children, start with yours. Be a responsible father, not a dead beat, like so many out there. Where is your integrity? Did you give it away? Or did the Native American Medicine people hypnotize it out of you? You blather on and on, about how the government does not enforce its laws. But, then, when they pull your license, you are highly indignant and insist, that YOU are being needlessly harassed. Did they pull your driver's license, jest 'cause they was bored? I think not! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

bendog - 03:12pm Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#360 of 366) The South shall Rise again. We have Viagra! Mr. Brown, you appear to have a mental illness. Best of luck to you, and I hope you don't hurt anybody. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 06:58pm Nov 30, 1999 MDT (#361 of 366) MU has a point with some schizophrenia. Other varieties however can be cured by the subconscious if the correct concepts can be placed deeply enough in it. bendog I won't say the reverse is true but I will say that you suffer from awareness repression or ignorance. The past is filled with evidence supporting what I say. What I am doing is not about hurting anyone bendog. In fact it is about creating a cure for aggression. For the cure to be found, denial of the subconscious and its role in life will have to end. And Dearest DarkShadow My kids are taken care of. (short term) If folks suffering from awareness repression or ignorance could examine the past objectively (what is left of it) they could see the potentials that I allege. If they could have courage to fight, at least verbally to protect the simple ideals and principals of our constitution (1876, peoples) their leaders might have a healthy example to follow and my (and other) children might find a long term protection. It appears that activity is beyond the awareness repression exhibited here by the continued, obvious focus on the economic problems I have that are created by something which the courts will not know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 09:35am Dec 1, 1999 MDT (#362 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: It appears that activity is beyond the awareness repression exhibited here by the continued, obvious focus on the economic problems I have that are created by something which the courts will not know. Get real! bendog I won't say the reverse is true but I will say that you suffer from awareness repression or ignorance. Bendog: Listen to the ever wise Christopher. *LOL* ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(4 following messages)

 

 

 

Christopher A. Brown - 11:57pm Dec 6, 1999 MDT (#363 of 366) 12/6/99 Somewhere north of Tulsa Oklahoma. First thing in the morning a 13 year old shot 4 classmates at his school. A friend called me this evening who listens to the radio. He said that the first officer on the scene was interviewed by a radio reporter and said. "The kid said that he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know what he had done. He did not try to run and that he had no memory of his actions." My friend said that news on television this evening left these facts out. I wonder how Americans feel about this censorship? The information indicates the boy was acting out of an alternative mental state. Okay Dark Shadow, time to beat me up some more.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dark Shadow - 07:43am Dec 7, 1999 MDT (#364 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher: My friend said that news on television this evening left these facts out. I wonder how Americans feel about this censorship? The information indicates the boy was acting out of an alternative mental state. The news only reports what gets the most reaction. Don't you know that? Distorted news, misstated news, anybody who believes every word the news says, better watch out. So, Christopher, riding your hobby horse around again in various topics????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher A. Brown - 12:56am Dec 11, 1999 MDT (#365 of 366) Laws are made to protect life and property. The media is manipulated to not inform us of links between these shootings. If they did they would not inform us of the nature of what is happening. Apparently nobody actually cares about the truth or that we are being de informed of the possibility of a form of mind control being exerted. It should be clear that religious schools are targeted and it is very sad that none care enough to protect children of a faith that cannot accept that there is an old animal mind that can be interacted with unconsciously. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dark Shadow - 07:11am Dec 13, 1999 MDT (#366 of 366) "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." Woody Allen Christopher Brown: Laws are made to protect life and property. Remember that, when the law is AFTER you! As in NOT PAYING CHILD SUPPORT!

 

LEMURIA

 

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